Desperate Help...

M

mysavioreigns

Famous Member
Hello,
I am new here, and in need of some big help. I posted this on another ford website, but didn't get any responses, so I'm just gonna copy and paste:

I have had a 66 mustang for about 3 weeks, and I have driven it twice. It is a 200ci coupe, Autolite 1100, new fuel tank, new Pertronix II ignition. When I first drove it home, it died 6 times. Here's what it does: When I slow down to to a stop (stop sign or red light) it will start "hiccuping" - I think it is missing. I then go to hit the gas, and it just dies. I put in new spark plugs and wires, and they are all gapped correctly. I rebuilt the carb last night, and put it in. All the hoses are hooked up, but it is doing the same thing. This time, I didn't drive it, but I revved it up, then let off the gas, and it just died.

If you have ANY suggestions, please just throw them in here. Heck, if you know a lot about engines and think you can solve it, I will pay you to come here and help :) :)

I have had about 4 guys over here but still no luck. We can't figure it out. I am vehicle-less since this one doesn't work and my truck recently went out on me too :( ... Thanks!
 
First off, where are you? You can add your location in your profile, and it'll appear below your handle.

As to your problem, did you reset the timing after installing the Pertronix? Many guys (myself included) have noted that this was necessary.
 
Sure didn't ... thought I did that last night. Oh well.

I'm from Arlington, TX (in between Dallas & Ft. Worth). I didn't set the timing, partly because I'm pretty confused on doing it. I never have, but I do have the timing light. Also, I don't see any little notches or marks on the pulley. I may need to look closer though...

Thanks for the quick response. Any more suggestions on what I can look for while I am in there?
 
You might also want to check for a vacuum leak, although if you just rebuilt the carb that shouldn't be an issue, unless you've got a bad hose. Mist a little starter fluid or carb cleaner around the motor, and if you see a change in rpm you'll know you're on the right track. Glad to be of help!
 
Confused on what you mean there - start it up and have it running, then spray a little carb cleaner around the engine? Just anywhere on there? Then I should hear a change in the RPM and that will show me it's a vacuum leak?

I know I see 2 lines coming out of the carb - one goes to the dizzy vacuum thing, and the other goes to the exhaust manifold.

Thanks
 
The line to the exhaust manifold is for the choke. There is a small passage in the base of the carb that sucks air through that black housing that the heater hose should be running against to heat and open the choke.

The line to the dizzy is the vacuum advance or in your case I would assume its the Spark Control Valve / Load O Mattic line which is the only way the timing is controled with this system. Timing could easily be your problem because when you let off or step on the gas the vacuum signal spikes and if your base timing is off it may just be pushing it too out of range and thats why its killing.

Most timing lights have 2 cables coming out of them, one goes to a power source, this would either be a black and red clips that you hook to your battery or a regular AC plug you plug into an outlet. The other wire(s) go to the spark plug wire. If this is an old light (pre mid 70's) it will have a metal clip and you will need to slide back the spark plug boot (usually on the cap side) to expose the bare metal to hook on to. If its newer it will have a plastic clamp that you squeeze to open and clamp it around the #1 plug wire. #1 is the one closest to the front of the car, they go in order 1 front and 6 is rear. The timing mark is a notch on the inside edge of the bottom pulley a little cleaner and or chalk or crayon makes it easier to see, the gauge should be visible if you are standing on the left (distributor) side of the car. To get the base setting you have to unhook the vacuum line that goes to the dizzy and plug the hole on the carb end so you dont have an extra vacuum leak. If it still has all the orignal steel line it may be easier to unhook it at the carb end. It may not be a bad idea (unless you want to keep it 100% orignal) to cut the steel line down by the dizzy and put in a piece of hose since you may have to turn the dizzy an inch or so to make up for the petronix install and the steel line may not want to move that far. At this point you can get the base timing set. Around 8* should be a safe place to start. Many of us are running well in the 14* range but not with the Load O's so I would start at 8* and get the rest of the buggs worked out.

Another thing to look at is your base idle setting, it may just be too low but get your timing right first because that seems more like what your problem is to me.
 
Here is a picture that may help:
timingmark.jpg
 
Besides base timing also check the dwell angle or points gap. If its too low the car will run like crap. I know for experience. Also, make one "fix" at a time and see if that helps, try to resist making five changes/fixes all at one time. That way you'll find out what the problem truly was.

tanx,
Mugsy 8)
 
You know, I think my truck knows it's "her time"...everything is going wrong, so I've had to fix that to get it running, before I can get back to the mustang.

Anyways, in response to mugsy, it doesn't have points anymore - went to Pertronix. I used their "calibration tool" (read, piece of plastic) that you stick down in between the rubber piece and the red magneto. I guess it is right? I mean, how exact can it be lol. It sticks down there, and barely grazes the sides of both...just barely. I assume that is correct.

Also, I remembered that when I tried to put in my rotor I ordered from Dallas Mustang a month ago, that it wouldn't fit, and so I put the old one back. I am going to get a new rotor (from somewhere else) and new dizzy cap. That might help a tad.

Last thing - in response to fordconvert, what exactly do you mean by "base" timing? I assume you mean, just idling, while in drive, emergency brake on and all. I don't need to do any more timing than that do I?

Thanks again for the help guys, looking forward to getting this fixed :D
 
Base timing is usually what they call it when the dizzy is at its lowest possible setting. With a Load O that would be without the vacuum line hooked up, with all the other pre computer dizzys that would be vacuum disconnected and at the lowest idle speed so the weights are not adding any timing. Some cars ask for special things (like my 78 cad wants timing set to 24*@1600 rpm for some reason) but I think the older stuff like we are talking about were all set at idle.

I will check the 66 book when I get home but I dont think it has to be in drive for the timing setting because the weights dont come in till it gets around 1000 rpm so as long as your idle is in a normal range 450-700ish you should be fine. The only time it has to be in drive is for the base idle setting.
 
I changed the fuel filter already along with the gas tank.

Fordconvert, thanks I appreciate it.

To check the actual RPM, how did you do that? do these dizzy's have a spot to hook up a tach?

:) clueless :)
 
Make sure your choke is pulling off completely or that it is not drifting shut when you stop. Where you live, you shouldn't really need a choke anyway. To pull the choke off, just loosen the screws on the ring and turn the black plastic cap as far as you can in the counterclockwise direction. If it just spins, you need to make sure the pull off spring is hooked up or functional.
 
Well, after a lot of looking at it, I think I may have nailed the problem. First off, I know that the 1100 is one of the hardest carbs to tune, and I REALLY don't want to deal with that. I pick carburetion over FI anyday, but this thing is really driving me nuts. I found a Carter YF (remanufactured) at Autozone for $75. Now, I know this isn't a high quality one, but I just want something that I can run the car with.

Also, this carburetor says it's "California Emissions." They have a non-cali emissions one, but it's $100, and is it really worth it? I plan on going to a 2 bbl in the summer, I just want to get it running! lol

I figure, if it doesn't work, I can just take it back.

What do you guys think?
 
I would put the points back in just to get it running. You can upgrade later, then you will only have one thing to troubleshoot.

I dunno about the 1100 being difficult to tune as I have never tuned one. Seems like it shouldn't be all that difficult to make it idle though. The Carter YF is pretty simple, I have had good success with those.
Joe
 
I still have the points, but I don't think that's the problem - I mean, I had it running with the Pertronix in it, so I know it does run. It just gradually got this way. :(
 
Howdy back Mysaviorreigns and All:

Ist off the Autolite 1100 is possibly the easiest carb to tune and work on ever. The all time easiest would have to be the Autolite 2100 two barrels.

Your engine is designed to have the Autolite 1100 carb, more specifically the Spark Control Valve (SCV) in the carb, work in tandem with the stock OEM LoadoMatic distributor. The SCV sends a vacuum/load signal to the advance mechanism in the distributor to give the correct advance for the load.

If you change to a Carter YF carb you should change the distributor to a '68 and later distributor with both vacuujm and centrifugal advance. Also know that the YF is not a direct bolt on. It will require adaptation of linkage, fuel line, air cleaner and choke hookup. AKT "Calif Emmission" is a specifically tuned carb for that engine package. It is leaner and designed to work with the earliest Air injection pumps, first required in California. Some of the tuning circuits are sealed to prevent tampering.

Some more questions- Howd did it run before you installed the Ignitor? How long has it been since you've rebuilt your current carb?

IF the answer is more then two years, I'd suggest that you start there. A kit is not expensive and the rebuild is mostly cleaning, replacing parts and adjusting the float. The rebuild will give you a baseline to go from. My best guess from the symptoms you've described is that it is a carb problem. A weakness of the 1100 is the accelerator pump system and susceptability to dirt and crud contamination

Adjusting the 1100 consists of setting the float level which is part of the rebuild. Setting the idle speed and adjusting the low speed air screw. Setting the choke linkage is also covered.

Before doing anything else listen carefully for vacuum leaks. A piece of rubber hose works as a stephascope. Hold one end to your ear and move the other over the carb and down vacuum hoses listening for the tell-take hiss of a vacuum leak. Fix any leaks before going on.

"Base" timing is also known as the initial advance setting. You will need a timing light, a golf tee, a piece of chalk, a 1/2 wrench and a timing light. Begin by cleanning the timing tab, finding the timing nick on the damper and highlighting it with the chalk. Next start and warm up the engine so that the choke is not closed at all. Set the engine idle speed as low as possible.

Shut the engine off to disconnect the vacuum line from the carb to the distributor cannister at the distributor. Plug the line with the golf tee. Now hook up the timing light making sure all lines are out of the way of the fan.

Restart the engine to assess the amount of initial (AKA base) advance present. IF the car has a manual trans the timing should read 6 degrees BTC, If an auto trans it should read 12.

IF it is not the correct initial setting use the 1/2" wrench to loosen the clamp bolt to move the distributor, counter-clockwise to advance, until you get the correct reading. Only loosen the bolt enough to barely move the distributor. Once your satisfied retighten the bolt and recheck the initial advance setting. If it is where you want it stop the engine to remove the timing light, remove the golf tee and reattach the vacuum line to the cannister.

If you advance the initial timing setting will likely need to reduce the idle speed as more advance will increase the idle.

Sorry to be so long. Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David
 
Two things I would check. See if the vacuum motor on the distributor holds vacuum. Pull the cap off of the the distributor. Rotate the engine where the rotor is pointing to the #1 position on the distributor. Disconnect the line and hook up a vacuum pump and gauge and test it. If that is not available, suck on the line and see if it holds. Also look for movement on the distributor mechanism. If the mechanism does not move or the vacuum diaphram leaks, you will not be able to get the engine to run properly.

Now look at the timing mark on the harmonic balancer and not its position to the timing index tab. With the distributor rotor pointing to the #1 terminal, the timing mark should be near the TDC mark. Pull the #1 spark plug. Get a screwdriver and light and poke in there to feel the top of the piston. If all is right, it should be nearly at the top. You might rotate the engine back and forth with a wrench or the fan blade to see if the piston is at the top of its travel. If it is not and the timing mark & rotor position do not agree, then the ring on your balancer has slipped. You will need to find TDC of the #1 cyl on the compression stroke. Make a new index mark on the balancer and re-time the engine. Then order a new balancer, because the balancer will likely shift again.

I just thought of another thing you need to verify. When you have confirmed that the #1 piston is at TDC and the rotor position on the distributor is pointing correctly, make sure you have the wires to the distributor cap are in the correct firing order. Maybe the wires were moved around when the Pertronix kit was installed.
Doug
 
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