DSII Dizzy won't drop

[DupleDreux]

Hi Guys

I'm about finished with installing my new short block, and I came to a real poser. The DSII distributor I used on my old block, (both the old and new are the same casting#) which would always just drop right in, twist past the cam gear and Id give it a kick with the starter and it'd drop over the oil pump shaft etc. etc. now it gets about 1/8" engaged in the cam gear and stops! I cleaned up the surfaces, lightly sanded the bosses on the dissy and covered everything with build lube, but it still won't drop.

Any Ideas?

Is it possible the rebuilder got ahold of a 250 cam somehow? does it have a different cam gear?

I've about scratched all the hair off my head here.

 

[early ford fan]

have you tryed manually turning the engine while pushing down on it?also make sure you have a dizzy with the 3/8"hole instead of the earlier 1/4 "hole.

 

[wallaka]

By definition, a DS2 is a later distributor. Also, 250 and 200 cams are exactly the same.

Make very sure that the oil pump shaft will slide in and out of the distributor hole with it out of the car. That was a problem with one of the distributors I had.

 

[fordconvert]

This is a new engine? Did you prime the oil pump? Just thinking that your technique of bumping the starter may not work with a empty oil pump. You may be dragging the oil pump along with the dizzy. I usually use a nut driver (or socket on extension) to advance the oil pump slightly till it will drop.

Was there also some issue with the improper pump and the length of the shaft?

 

[rbohm]

8) you are just having the same problem we all do when installing a distributor, the oil pump driveshaft is off slightly from the opening in the distributor. as indicated, crank the engine over slightly while holding the distributor down and it should drop right into place.

 

[DupleDreux]

Thanks everyone,

Its the same oil pump and shaft from the old engine, so they all work together. I primed the oil system with a long bit holder holding a shaft from one of those 4 in 1 screw drivers that uses screw gun bits, spun it right up.

I don't think its even getting down to the shaft though, but it is dropping into the oil pump hole about 1/8 of an inch.

Had two other ideas, one they aligned bored the cam bearings too far outboard, so the gears are too close together, or two, the oil pump is mounted too far inboard and pulling the distributor shaft too far inboard, but I thought the pump had some alignment tab so that wouldn't happen.

now scratching the hair off my arms as well

 

[wsa111]

Take the oil pump hex drive out of the equation.

With the oil pump drive shaft out see if the dizzy will now drop in???

Assuming it doesen't then check the bore in the block where the bottom of the dizzy shaft goes into. Is there a burr in the hole??

Check the diameter of this bore compared to the diameter of your dizzy shaft & your old block.

Somewhere along the line you will find some bore with a burr or high spot.

DON'T FORGET TO REINSTALL THE OIL PUMP HEX SHAFT.

Let us know what you find. Bill

 

[DupleDreux]

Thanks Bill,

that got right to the heart of it.

I pulled the hex shaft and tried to install the dizzy.

It went down as far as I could push it (not very far) and so I pushed and hand cranked. went a little further and the rotor wouldn't turn (except advance slop) so I thought it was engaged in the cam gear.

I kicked the starter and the motor turned, but he rotor didn't.. I thought oh h**l, the cams not turning so I pulled the dizzy back out and cranked it again. The cam turned fine - the dizzy was not even engaged in the gear, it was hanging up before. And the only thing it could hang up on is the bore in the block at the bottom.

The bore left oil on the dizzy shaft so I measued it - about 5/16th of an inch.

I dropped the hex shaft back in and inserted a dowel, the oil residue went up about 9/16th of an inch.

So I looked for burrs etc. couldn't feel anything with the dowel or a q-tip.

I think you're right the bore is simply out of alignment.

Now the hard part - what is the work around? turn down the dizzy shaft, try to grind the bosses into a tapir or...

pull the block and go back to the rebuilder sigh

mark

 

[wsa111]

Mark, i assume you have made no changes to the distributor, such as a new gear compared to when it was in the old engine????

You need to use a snap guage to measure all the bores in the new block compared to the old block.

It sounds like one of the aligning rings one the dizzy bind in one of the bores of the new block.

Do you have another dizzy shaft & compare its bottom OD to what you are trying to install? If its the same diameter try to insert it into the lower shaft bore in the new block.

You are going to have to check every area for interference. Bill

 

[DupleDreux]

Bill, thanks, short story you were exactly right the engine bores were out of spec in two areas.

I tried my old points dizzy and it had exactly the same problem.

I figured it was binding on the aligning bosses so I ground the lowest one down about a 1/16. Now it rattled in the upper (large) bore, but it still got stuck and wouldn't drop.

The lower bore must be too tight too.

I dont have a lathe, so I chucked the hex shaft in my drill, clamped my drill to my workbench and spun the shaft down with emory paper very carefully.

After about four tries it started to drop.

About three tries more and it engaged the cam gear.

Two more and it fully dropped and the upper bosses were very nicely snug.

I really appreciate your help, and everyone elses here too.

Tonight I might get it to start!

mark

oh, and i remembered to return the hexshaft!

 

[wsa111]

Mark, mission accomplished.

Remember to moly lube the dizzy gear to camshaft for extra protection during first start breakin.

Get this engine breathing air. Bill

 

[DupleDreux]

Everybody,

ITS ALIVE.

The idle speed is way up, and the idle screws are out 4 turns (2100)

It pop pop pop pops until I pull off the #4 spark plug wire, then it smooths out sort of ?!?

And theres a steady stream of oil from the bellhousing ARG!

Any ideas on the pop pop pop?

mark

 

[DupleDreux]

I just got done doing a forum search on rear main seals,

My man Bill here wrote a great play by play on flex plate bolts.

I didn't use any sealer of any kind on my flex plate bolts and I can drain my engine of 3 quarts of oil in about 10 minutes through the bell housing of my C4.

Also I just tightened the torque converter nuts up 1-2-3-4.

Guess I'm pulling the engine back out tomorrow.

Its all good, getting in touch with the machine in a Zen sorta way.

"may all your obstacles bring your greatest joys" or something like that.

mark

 

[Ronbo]

Ha ha ha ha! Great attitude! I learned about the holes in the crankshaft on my third R&R of the Bronco driveline. It still seeps today, just not enough to go through that h3!! again! Good luck with it!

Ron

PS Pop-pop-pop Could it be a valve hanging up a tad? Run it for a bit and see if it worsens or lessens. Have fun!

 

[DupleDreux]

Okay,

The rear main seal was installed at 9 & 3, not 10 & 4, the priming blew it out.

They used no build lube in the entire build as far as I can tell.

Lubed it up on the reinstall, got it together, got it to run.

Runs a lot better now that oil is making its way up to the valve train, still a little popping - but a lot better.

BUT I still have an oil leak back there!

Are there any mysterious or hidden plugs or seals I'm missing?

mark

 

[Ronbo]

Run your hand across the back of the head to be sure its not running down from the valve cover or head. The oil comes up around a head bolt on the backside if I'm remembering right. Can't remember if there were any plugs on the back of the block or not (lifter galley and such).

Stay with it!!


Ron

 

[cobraguy]

There is an oil galley plug back of the block between the cam bore "freeze plug" and the regular freeze plug. Could be either of these.

 

[DupleDreux]

Thanks Ron and Cobraguy

its missing the oil galley plug.

any idea what the size and threads are?

thanks again guys, this forum is a lifesaver!

mark