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larryejoh":20eaymnx said:
Cool!
Do you have a link to a thread where you supply details?
EFI 200 brain storm....
- Thread starter XFlow_Fairlane
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Cool!
Do you have a link to a thread where you supply details?
Well I have this friend from school that is an electrical tech guy and he offered to build a MS-2 box for me and setup the wiring aspect of the EFI for me. he had a MS2 box running on his 4.3 for awhile but had a laptop die on him so went back stock since he couldn't easily tune it. We are looking at the 4.0L exploder ignition ran off a 36-1 wheel with the EDIS. but are also thinking of maybe a modded aussie eec4 dizzy to run things.
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Congrats on getting a friend to build one for you!
64.5 TX Stang
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A cam angle sensor (CAS) is not necessary unless you are looking to do sequential injection. SEFI is only a benefit at low speeds to help control emissions and pick up a little economy.
A duraspark distributor can provide the VR signal to trigger most EFI systems, but if you want to run EDIS you'll need a 36-1 trigger wheel and the sensor, along with the EDIS box and coils. There are stand alone circuits that can provide the SAW output for EDIS, or it can be generated in Megasuirt II. MS II can also fire a GM DIS.
We just finished assembling and testing a MS-II V3.0 that uses the Hall dizzy and is firing ignition directly thru the VB921 circuit. The initial maps are loaded and once we have some more of the sheet metal work done, we'll finish hookin that up to light off the crossflow again. I'm expecting better performance than we got with the SDS.
A duraspark distributor can provide the VR signal to trigger most EFI systems, but if you want to run EDIS you'll need a 36-1 trigger wheel and the sensor, along with the EDIS box and coils. There are stand alone circuits that can provide the SAW output for EDIS, or it can be generated in Megasuirt II. MS II can also fire a GM DIS.
We just finished assembling and testing a MS-II V3.0 that uses the Hall dizzy and is firing ignition directly thru the VB921 circuit. The initial maps are loaded and once we have some more of the sheet metal work done, we'll finish hookin that up to light off the crossflow again. I'm expecting better performance than we got with the SDS.
Well one the electrical side of the EFI I am a little lost (why I enlisted a electrical tech)
I was looking to try an get rid of the duraspark all together and just run a dummy shaft in its place (a turned AL button with a hacked off dizzy drive to run the pump)
I will prob be starting work on designing my own EFI intake for mike's head when it becomes available. I would run the one he is making but have some hood clearance issues that I think a bonnent on a ford TBI would be too tall. also the fairlane spring towers have less clearance than a mustang or falcon (how this is possible I don't know as the fairlane is a larger car)
I started out just wanting to make a 300hp car but looking at the flow numbers and running more boost is making something in the 400-500 range (crank hp) seeming like a bit of a reality. figured if I have to fab most of my setup I might as well go all out and only do it once
I was looking to try an get rid of the duraspark all together and just run a dummy shaft in its place (a turned AL button with a hacked off dizzy drive to run the pump)
I will prob be starting work on designing my own EFI intake for mike's head when it becomes available. I would run the one he is making but have some hood clearance issues that I think a bonnent on a ford TBI would be too tall. also the fairlane spring towers have less clearance than a mustang or falcon (how this is possible I don't know as the fairlane is a larger car)
I started out just wanting to make a 300hp car but looking at the flow numbers and running more boost is making something in the 400-500 range (crank hp) seeming like a bit of a reality. figured if I have to fab most of my setup I might as well go all out and only do it once
turbo_fairlane_200":2e2pefv1 said:
You need something to let the computer know that the engine is turning. Once it knows how fast, it can calculate the next required ignition or fuel cycle. That can be the distributor, if you keep the dizzy to move the sparks, or it can be DIS. It only needs a cam angle measurement if you are trying to match a specific event that does not occur every revolution, such as ignition.
Go to the Megasquirt manual site and read everything there. Also read everyting on the SDS tech site. Using a Megasquirt II, distributorless ignition is doable using either GM or Ford parts. Each has its advantages.
100 hp/liter should be easily within reach with EFI and a well matched turbo. You will need a well prepped block. However, getting to 400-500 hp with a 3.3 liter engine is going to require some very careful attention to components and assembly.
Another thing to consider: The stock clutch is only 9". How will you pass 500 hp thru such a tiny clutch? You probably need to look at multi-disc setups to see if that will work. Automatic? Same issue with the small converter. Stall speed is dependent on engine torque. A monster turbo motor would overpower the tiny stock converter, but there's little room for anything larger. Consider that the torque output of this engine could be over 400 lb/ft and you can see that you are going to overwhelm anything resembling the original stock components. Chassis, Brakes, suspension? All need to be built for this level of power. This will need a lot of consideration.
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MustangSix":21cq9kvp said:
That's a big thing....the option are to use a 250 block (if you can find one...) or an early 80's "Big Bell" 200 block like I run.
THEN.... if using late model mustang performance components and a T-5/Tremec 3550/TKO/AOD/4R70W trans the sky is the limit!!
Because the 200 bellhousing tends to be the limiting factor, maybe the proper approach is to use a different location for the transmission.
Moving the clutch to the rear of the car into a transaxle would open up a lot of possibilities. Corvette, Porsche, or Hewland style transmissions along with IRS.....hey, if you're going to build a $$$$ 500hp turbo engine, you should budget for a $$$$ chassis to go with it!
Moving the clutch to the rear of the car into a transaxle would open up a lot of possibilities. Corvette, Porsche, or Hewland style transmissions along with IRS.....hey, if you're going to build a $$$$ 500hp turbo engine, you should budget for a $$$$ chassis to go with it!
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Alright, Mr. Collins, that will be enough dreaming for you! 
Actually, you can near adapt any trans to any engine with enough work, but there comes a point where it just isn't worth any more hassle and you draw the line.
Actually, you can near adapt any trans to any engine with enough work, but there comes a point where it just isn't worth any more hassle and you draw the line.
well the clutch point isn't important as I will most likely change to a slush box. You can get a 9" clutch to hold that kind of power though as it is done alot by the 2.3L guys. Now the question of it being a streetable clutch would have an answer of no (solid hub on/off only)
matt1967":2g2n2lbz said:
You can use the hardware from almost anything EFI. The sensors, harnesses, throttle body, injectors, etc., could all be used form darn near anything. The GM hardware is probably better as far as adapting to other engines.
The real issue is the ECU. Factory ECU's are tuned to work on a particular engine, in a particular vehicle, and often with a particular transmission and options. They are very sophisticated and sometimes control more than just the EFI - ignition, transmission, ABS, climate....sometimes even memory seats and mirrors.
Adapting a disparate ECU to a 200 can be challenging unless you can reprogram it, and that often takes a good bit of skill and sometimes a specialized interface. Once you get to that point, you might as well have started with an aftermarket standalone that is designed to be tunable.
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Also there's the issue of having to deal with 10 years or older hardware. Effectively it means that you can pull from a junkyard a 300 EFI setup but you will more or less have to purchase new sensors & stuff anyway to replace already malfunctioning or just plain worn out stuff. And then you're stuck with what you have. I'm leaning towards recommending a brand new setup, build it the way you want and with whatever individual components are suitable. The fact that a 300 is also a six cylinder engine does not much convince me in terms of adapting the setup to another six-cylinder.
A MAP-driven Ford EEC-IV setup does no longer really offer much in comparison to a well executed MegaSquirt system - in fact it's obvious by now that the MS is a good bet. That is, for a retrofit type of a project. If all that is wanted is an EFI engine and let's say you had a carb 300 then a migration path using a donor 300 EFI would be ok.
The more I study this issue, the more I am beginning to realize that the MS does offer a lot of good. At first I wanted to retain EEC-IV but it is just making things a bit complicated especially around here where I live.
Of course it boils down to what one wants to do and how. In the end there are only recommendations of which some are good some aren't. Using 300 EFI implementation in a smaller six might be a great idea too, especially if one wants to keep it 'all Ford'.
I don't think that using a Mega would do you harm.
A MAP-driven Ford EEC-IV setup does no longer really offer much in comparison to a well executed MegaSquirt system - in fact it's obvious by now that the MS is a good bet. That is, for a retrofit type of a project. If all that is wanted is an EFI engine and let's say you had a carb 300 then a migration path using a donor 300 EFI would be ok.
The more I study this issue, the more I am beginning to realize that the MS does offer a lot of good. At first I wanted to retain EEC-IV but it is just making things a bit complicated especially around here where I live.
Of course it boils down to what one wants to do and how. In the end there are only recommendations of which some are good some aren't. Using 300 EFI implementation in a smaller six might be a great idea too, especially if one wants to keep it 'all Ford'.
I don't think that using a Mega would do you harm.
there is also code now supporting MS as a flex fuel system (with the installation of a fuel sensor from a GM car) Kinda like the idea to go to E85 without having to retune for it.
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turbo_fairlane_200":275jt20y said:
Yeah, its a HUGE buzz right now. The flex fuel sensor is $500 new but supposedly some guys are snagging them from JY wrecks as soon as they apppear on the lot.
well since I have access to the shop again at school (taking a class) I think I am going to take in my spare E0 head and weld in injector bungs (already welded it up for a direct mount weber pattern) and see if I can get an EFI motor running this winter. so I know this is far from my HP goal but it would be a port injection setup so if I can get it running right under boost swapping in a different head/intake should not be too much of a stretch for the system. plus I can swap this on in the driveway some weekend and work on the small stuff like running fuel line, pumps, wiring, etc
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