Equal length turbo header

[Anonymous]

Ok...anyone have any ideas on an equal length turbo header?....do you think the timing of the pulses striking the turbine wheel will make it spool up smoother and quicker than if they were off time?

Im going to run 123 on one side of the turbine and 456 on the other side of the turbine...Im not sure as the nature behind how this exhaust would work for a turbo and whether equally timed pulses would be better than un timed, erratic pulses...just throwing somethign out to discuss that i would like some input on if there is any...which i knw there is and I hope will reveal itself.

 

[Unfalconbelievable]

Hey I've had a similar idea I'm going to try with my first turbo header, except I'm going to have the runners equal length and going around in the firing order to produce a swirling motion in the exhaust. I know the 8 into 1 headers for V8 power boat racing is based on this idea helping scavenging but maybe it will help with the spool time of a turbo too!

Just my .02

 

[Anonymous]

Im going to run 123 on one side of the turbine and 456 on the other side of the turbine....

That is EXACTLY what you want to do.


If you ever have header design questions (for straight sixes), just look at Supra and Skyline builds to see how they do things. They have been there, done that.

 

[Does10s]

I think that equal length headers have more to do with making the engine breath better, thereby making more power in N/A form. This will have an even greater effect when you bolt on a turbo.
Will

 

[Anonymous]

1)I think that equal length headers have more to do with making the engine breath better, thereby making more power in N/A form.

2)This will have an even greater effect when you bolt on a turbo.

1) Agree. In N/A, scaveging of exhaust by using pulses and echoes is everything.

2) Disagree. It helps when you are looking for that last 1 or 2 HP, or when you have a 2 liter engine making 1000 HP. But for all PRACTICAL purposes, trying to build turbo headers "Equal Length" really isn't worth the extra cost/effort for the small gains returned.

 

[Does10s]

Linc's,
Maybe I typed it wrong....
If the motor makes more power in N/A trim, then when you add boost I'll be easier to make even more power.
I agree with you on item #2, that the turbo doesn't really care how the exhaust flow gets to it. It just wants a high quantity of exhaust and a lot of exhaust velocity.
Later,
Will

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I think on a turbo it is just more important that you flow the exhuast there as effectiently as possible (IE no log...oops) toherwise you are butting heads and wasteing energy.

 

[Anonymous]

the turbo doesn't really care how the exhaust flow gets to it. It just wants a high quantity of exhaust and a lot of exhaust velocity.

The path from exhaust valve to turbine can be frought with turns and restrictions. Those are what hurt flow/velocity.

flow the exhaust there as efficiently as possible

Since a N/A engine NEEDS pulses along a long tube to create an "Echo Wave" to help scavenge the cylinder......

And the exhaust port of a turbo engine pretty much sees positive pressure at all times under boost....

.....Tube length isn't so much of an issue on a boosted engine as an unrestricted flow path is.

 

[Anonymous]

Makes sense to me....i figured it was better for an N/A as far as a noticable power gain than for a turbo. Equal length means more welding and cutting too..which is somethign i would liek to do as least amount as possible..im about to get mean with some stainless pretty soon.

Im going to buy some pre-bent 90 degree and/or some 180 degree 1 5/8" stainless 304 tubing. Something from either burns stainless, cassic tube, or possibly on Ebaymotors if it is availiable.

The wastegate is my next question. I was going to run it out the top of the header at the collector right before the outlet into the turbine housing. it will be WITH the flow of exhaust for effectiveness. Should I split up the two sides and just run the wastegate tube half and half (123 vent on one half and 456 vent on the other as they split to enter the turbine) any little ideas?...I think what i have planned with work just perfect though. I dont want a long vent tube for the wastegate (less reaction time)

Anyway, thank you for al lthe wonderful input...more is welcome

Adam

 

[Anonymous]

1) Im going to buy some pre-bent 90 degree and/or some 180 degree 1 5/8" stainless 304 tubing. Something from either burns stainless, cassic tube, or possibly on Ebaymotors if it is availiable.

2) Should I split up the two sides and just run the wastegate tube half and half (123 vent on one half and 456 vent on the other as they split to enter the turbine)

1) Look into schedule 40 weld els.
304 in a typical .065" wall thickness will be VERY difficult to build so that it will not have crack in 6 mos.

2) Yes

 

[Anonymous]

almost all the header fabricators use 304 stainless in .065". I realize the thicker it is the more resistance to crack...but do you really think it will crack?...given i weld it well and make it right?....but i have given it thoguht...and i found some stainless elbows in 45 and 90 at onlinemetals.com in schedule 40....they would work...but i dont want anything too awfully heavy...stainless is hard to work with as is when thin...

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html

Header Fab:

http://www.sdsefi.com/techheader.htm


I was working with Ross on the idea of fuel injection on my Lycoming aircraft engine, he said 304 stainless .065 just wouldn't last, and that was non-turbo.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.magnumforce.com/SearchResult ... =stainless

These may not be cheap, but I have ordered from them and the product is good.

 

[Anonymous]

NOTHING says look at all the trouble I went to and how fine it turned out better than equal length headers. Totally unrequired in my opinion, but also a real chick magnet.
I figure if you're going to be to going to the trouble to make them anyways, go the extra mile. *s*

http://bsdi.ath.cx/truck/heat.jpg[/url]

 

[Anonymous]

By the way Linc's what is frought? *g* I've seen FRAUGHT as in 'fraught with peril' before but that is a new one?

 

[Anonymous]

By the way Linc's what is "frought"?

A mis-spelling.

 

[Anonymous]

1) Totally unrequired in my opinion, but also a real chick magnet.

2) I figure if you're going to be to going to the trouble to make them anyways, go the extra mile. [/url]

1) Chicks don't care.

2) I have built equal lengths in the past. They can EASILY take over FOUR TIMES as long to build, or LONGER. It is a task best left for those with infinite patience or the undaunted.

You can make them look "somewhat" equal length without ACTUALLY being, for far less time and effort.

If someone has a split tangential turbine housing and wants to run 1-2-3 into one side and 4-5-6 into the other side, that is a good design, and doesn't need to be equal length, just well made.

 

[StrangeRanger]

As to material thickness, Schedule 10 stainless steel pipe is .109" wall, almost twice as thick as the .065 tubing but way less than the .145" thickness of Sch 40. Sch 10 is also somewhat easier than Sch 40 to fabricate, epecially if you're going to try to mash the transitions at the flange plate into a rectangular shape which matches the exhaust port rather than just leaving them round.

 

[Anonymous]

Schedule 10 stainless steel pipe is .109" wall, almost twice as thick as the .065 tubing but way less than the .145" thickness of Sch 40..

Maybe that's what I was thinking of.

.145" is THICK (at least it'll last forever! )

I think .109" is strong enough to handle the weight of the turbo.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

alot of it depends on the turbo location and tubing layout. a tight compact header will be less likely to crack. if it is mounted farther away a brace is a good idea