well hi all im new here. and a novice when it come to i6 performance.so i got myself a 78 fairmont wagon with 86k on the odometer last week. i need some help. its a bone stock 200 with i belive a c5 and a 7.5 rear with 2.73 gears. well i like to do some mods. i been browsing all over this site for a few days now. what i want to do is a tri power. cam hot one i can with stock tranny, headers and replace the rear with a 3.08 or 3.24 gears. this car is gutless of the line. i have a hard time pulling out into traffic.what i want to know is links to find parts and info. i cant pull the engine due to my limited access to a shop. so i want to do all this in car if i can. thanks matt
fairmont wagon
- Thread starter bigmcgiv
- Start date
8) i had an 80 fairmont wagon, and i agree that performance is rather lacking. the first thing you should do is run a lower gear, like a 3.08 or 3.25 gear. that alone will make a big difference in performance, and you may even pick up a bit of fuel economy because the engine wont be struggling as much. after that bump the initial timing until you get detonation, then back of a few degrees. that will also get you a performance improvement. the next thing to do is, if you have the catalytic converter right under the exhaust manifold, make sure the converter element has not burned out and is blocking exhaust flow.
after that make sure the engine is in good overall condition before you add multiple carbs. i would also go with a two barrel upgrade rather than three one barrel carbs as it is much easier to tune.
after that make sure the engine is in good overall condition before you add multiple carbs. i would also go with a two barrel upgrade rather than three one barrel carbs as it is much easier to tune.
Hey there. Congrats on the find.
I don't think they put C5's in 'em until the 80's so it's probably a C4.
There is one fellow here that has done a tripower with a cable throttle.
I've built my engine up, but still running the 1bbl.
Oh and you might as well go to an 8.8 rear with trac-loc off a mustang.
I don't think they put C5's in 'em until the 80's so it's probably a C4.
There is one fellow here that has done a tripower with a cable throttle.
I've built my engine up, but still running the 1bbl.
Oh and you might as well go to an 8.8 rear with trac-loc off a mustang.
tri-power 250
Well-known member
Bigmcgiv, If you are new to the Ford I-6, buy the Falcon Performance book. There is a lot of great advice in this book.
http://falconperformance.sundog.net/
Ken
http://falconperformance.sundog.net/
Ken
bigblue91
Well-known member
not sure what your exhaust setup is but freeing up the exhaust helps alot on these engines,
the catalytic converter and muffler on my car was destroyed internally not letting anything pass :roll:
-ran off manifold into a y and into (2) 12" glassapacks then into tips at backdoors.
she sang good and had more pep,
headers would also be recommenced if performance is your desired path
the catalytic converter and muffler on my car was destroyed internally not letting anything pass :roll:
-ran off manifold into a y and into (2) 12" glassapacks then into tips at backdoors.
she sang good and had more pep,
headers would also be recommenced if performance is your desired path
How important is exhaust? Well let me speak from personal and expensive perspective..
I drove my Mustang for about 10 years real hard. At that time It was my work and fun car, not a classic..
One day it would only idle. All it would do under driving condition was stall spit and sputter. I bought a used car for work and gave up the fun part.
Talking to friends at work with “”experience”” I was convinced I had blown the motor. Not knowing any better I Bought a short block and replaced the motor.
Ran the same. Now I’m teeded and ant got the time to fool with it. I park it in my driveway and there it sat for nearly 30 years until I retired.
Now I ready and have the time to fool with it. I had to replace the break cylinders. I’m under the car and notice my muffler had a hole in the bottom near the rear and it looked clogged. So I said hummm let me see if I can punch some of it out.
The hole got bigger and I noticed it was really clogged. I took the muffler off. Went around and started the car and it ran great.
I finished restoring that car and it never stop running. That was 10 years ago.
I just took that same motor out last month and it looked great inside.. I had 165 on 5 cylinders and 155 on # 3..
Lesson I learned.. if for no clear reason your motor starts to refuse to drive normal,
check ya exhaust First: It is a lot cheaper.. :mrgreen:
I laugh now but at the time it wasn't funny at all...
I drove my Mustang for about 10 years real hard. At that time It was my work and fun car, not a classic..
One day it would only idle. All it would do under driving condition was stall spit and sputter. I bought a used car for work and gave up the fun part.
Talking to friends at work with “”experience”” I was convinced I had blown the motor. Not knowing any better I Bought a short block and replaced the motor.
Ran the same. Now I’m teeded and ant got the time to fool with it. I park it in my driveway and there it sat for nearly 30 years until I retired.
Now I ready and have the time to fool with it. I had to replace the break cylinders. I’m under the car and notice my muffler had a hole in the bottom near the rear and it looked clogged. So I said hummm let me see if I can punch some of it out.
The hole got bigger and I noticed it was really clogged. I took the muffler off. Went around and started the car and it ran great.
I finished restoring that car and it never stop running. That was 10 years ago.
I just took that same motor out last month and it looked great inside.. I had 165 on 5 cylinders and 155 on # 3..
Lesson I learned.. if for no clear reason your motor starts to refuse to drive normal,
check ya exhaust First: It is a lot cheaper.. :mrgreen:
I laugh now but at the time it wasn't funny at all...
mine runs great i drove it home on the hiway doing 65. its just dead off the line and i belive it is the 2.73 gears. i have a funny story i had a 79 f150 2wd. [love those trucks] any it have a mild 351 w and a c6. i put on a 40 buck chrome dress kit on it. that was back then. well 3-4 weeks later i notice i had no oil pressure.[wtf] well i shut it down. got out checked the oil. its full. ok i fired it up i had pressure again hmm. did this for 2 days. got home and i remember from a good freind he told me to check what i last touch most likely that is where the problem may be. a chrome dress up kit was the last thing. well i had my dad fire it up and told him to hold it a 2000 rpms and watch the guage.i notice oil squirting out of the dip stick.i had him shut it down. then it told him do it again and when the oil squirted out i pulled the chrome breather.thats what it was. it was cloged up and built up pressure and lifted the oil up. i tore the foam out of it and put it back on and never had a issue after with it.
ok all im scraping the tri power idea. it looks cool but i dont want to yank the head to do the tri setup.i didnt realize the manifold was molded in the head.[rookie] im going to go with the 2bbl setup instead. what do i need to do this on my 79 fairmont. what cab abd spacer. and will it fit under the hood? i dont want to mod stuff. also what cam profile shoil i go with. thanks
Way back when my 81 Stang was on the road, I put a 2 barrel Motorcraft carb on it using a 2 bbl. to 1 bbl adaptor.
It did improve performance, but the proper way to do it is to remove the head and mill the top of the intake to directly mount the 2 bbl carb.
There are others here that have already done that mod.
It did improve performance, but the proper way to do it is to remove the head and mill the top of the intake to directly mount the 2 bbl carb.
There are others here that have already done that mod.
bigmcgiv":3pd4r6bt said:
Don't buy it off eBay, you may not be getting the latest edition. Buy from Classic Inlines, here
http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=73
or from the author here
http://falconperformance.sundog.net/
It's best to contribute to the ones that help us out to keep them in business.
If you're not aware the 79+ Mustangs are based on the Fairmont platform. A lot of the suspension parts, rear axles, and wheels are direct bolt-ons.
Some of the early 80's Mustangs even came with a 200.
Welcome to the Forum
Howdy Big and All:
Welcome to THe FOrum! Yes, it is that good. I'm offering a couple of FYIs that may help you. I think the trans in a '78 Fairmont is a C3 rather than a C5. The C5 first appeared in the '82 model year and differed from a C3 only in the addition of a lock-up torque converter. Of course, the trans could have been updated some time since the '80s. Both the C3 and C5 are light weight, lite duty versions of the C4.
The quick burn cats that attach directly to the exhaust manifold first appeared in the '78 model year. It is easy to ID. Look at the exhaust manifold where it dumps into the head pipe. If the head pipe looks like a coffee can you've got it. If you're lucky it will have a normal head pipe. But because yours is a '78 it may have the earlier style exhaust thanks to FoMoCos "empty bin" policy.
Does your '78 have a Carter YF carb? IF so that's a plus in my mind. You will have several stock appearing bolt-on upgrades. The 200 YFs are rated at 187 cfm. A YF from a '75 to '79 250 engine is rated @ 195 cfm for a slight upgrade. A YF from a BB 300 is rated @220 cfm for a BIG wow. Since the YFs have a vacuum controlled metering rod system for both main and power systems only minimal tuning may be needed. Externally, they all look very similiar.
A '78 200 will several performance limitations. The CR is 8:1, the cams timing has been advanced to add low end torque. THese two in addition to the rear gear ratio and the restrictive exhaust all add to less than thrilling performance especially at low rpm, low speed acceleration. The good news is the excellent ignition system, the air cleaner system and a head with all the right stuff.
The keys to performance increases will be a lower rear gear, as you've already identified, along with getting the compression ratio up to the 9:1 range, a better cam and exhaust system and keeping the car as light as possible. Unfortunately, upgrading the cam and increasing CR will require a major engine rebuild. So you may want to focus on the items that do not require pulling the engine first. Given that you may want to put together a plan with a budget and a priority list to take you in the direction of your goal.
If I were in your shoes, I'd start by assessing what I've got. Next stripping off any non-essential and/or non-functioning smog stuff and advance the initial timing to about 15 degrees BTC. Then I'd start shopping for the right rear end. I'd be looking for a complete rear end- either a 7.5" or 8.8"/ You'll find the 7.5" rears quite a bit cheaper than an 8.8". For all practical purposes a 7.5" rear will be close to a direct bolt in.For your application either will be fine but the 7.5" will be lighter weight, cheaper and will easily handle your power levels. Next I'd be looking for a '78 and later head to be building- mill .075", three angle performance valve job, back-cut the intake valves. Once the head is ready, swapping out the stock head for the new one is usually a long afternoon job. That will leave upgrading the cam for when you will need to pull the engine.
Again, welcome and keep us posted on your choices and progress.
Adios, David
Welcome to THe FOrum! Yes, it is that good. I'm offering a couple of FYIs that may help you. I think the trans in a '78 Fairmont is a C3 rather than a C5. The C5 first appeared in the '82 model year and differed from a C3 only in the addition of a lock-up torque converter. Of course, the trans could have been updated some time since the '80s. Both the C3 and C5 are light weight, lite duty versions of the C4.
The quick burn cats that attach directly to the exhaust manifold first appeared in the '78 model year. It is easy to ID. Look at the exhaust manifold where it dumps into the head pipe. If the head pipe looks like a coffee can you've got it. If you're lucky it will have a normal head pipe. But because yours is a '78 it may have the earlier style exhaust thanks to FoMoCos "empty bin" policy.
Does your '78 have a Carter YF carb? IF so that's a plus in my mind. You will have several stock appearing bolt-on upgrades. The 200 YFs are rated at 187 cfm. A YF from a '75 to '79 250 engine is rated @ 195 cfm for a slight upgrade. A YF from a BB 300 is rated @220 cfm for a BIG wow. Since the YFs have a vacuum controlled metering rod system for both main and power systems only minimal tuning may be needed. Externally, they all look very similiar.
A '78 200 will several performance limitations. The CR is 8:1, the cams timing has been advanced to add low end torque. THese two in addition to the rear gear ratio and the restrictive exhaust all add to less than thrilling performance especially at low rpm, low speed acceleration. The good news is the excellent ignition system, the air cleaner system and a head with all the right stuff.
The keys to performance increases will be a lower rear gear, as you've already identified, along with getting the compression ratio up to the 9:1 range, a better cam and exhaust system and keeping the car as light as possible. Unfortunately, upgrading the cam and increasing CR will require a major engine rebuild. So you may want to focus on the items that do not require pulling the engine first. Given that you may want to put together a plan with a budget and a priority list to take you in the direction of your goal.
If I were in your shoes, I'd start by assessing what I've got. Next stripping off any non-essential and/or non-functioning smog stuff and advance the initial timing to about 15 degrees BTC. Then I'd start shopping for the right rear end. I'd be looking for a complete rear end- either a 7.5" or 8.8"/ You'll find the 7.5" rears quite a bit cheaper than an 8.8". For all practical purposes a 7.5" rear will be close to a direct bolt in.For your application either will be fine but the 7.5" will be lighter weight, cheaper and will easily handle your power levels. Next I'd be looking for a '78 and later head to be building- mill .075", three angle performance valve job, back-cut the intake valves. Once the head is ready, swapping out the stock head for the new one is usually a long afternoon job. That will leave upgrading the cam for when you will need to pull the engine.
Again, welcome and keep us posted on your choices and progress.
Adios, David
ok i am going to remove the smog stuff. cut the cats out and pipe it. where i live we dont have a emmision testing. set my timing and do a compresion test. alocate a rear and swap it. now depending on my compression test. can i do a cam swap in car with the fairmont? if so great. if not i will have to get another engine. see i cant have this car down for more than a day or two.i dont want to wear out my welcome. so i need to build in stages. but it dont want to do something and have a issue where i have to switch it back.ok the rear is going to be a 7.5 or 8.8 with lo 3.-- gears. tranny c4 stock. engine i want to do a head up and bolt on shave, port an polish and a tri power on a big log. the tri will be a home built cant seem to find the offy adapter. header.with duals.
Yes it is easy to access the front of the block to swap a cam in.
I tried it and damaged the bearings. Had to pull the engine and subsequently got it completely rebuilt.
And because it happened this time of the year, the engine didn't get back in until spring. :roll:
Had to buy another car.
Perhaps you might have a better experience....
I tried it and damaged the bearings. Had to pull the engine and subsequently got it completely rebuilt.
And because it happened this time of the year, the engine didn't get back in until spring. :roll:
Had to buy another car.
Perhaps you might have a better experience....
You can do a cam swap in the Fairmont without removing the engine if you make room. You need the length of the cam so it will go straight in without hitting the cam bearings. In most instances, that entails removing the radiator at least. This will take time to remove and reinstall.
Of course, when the engine is pulled, the radiator has to be removed.
It would be faster to replace the cam with the engine in the vehicle, but be Very Careful while doing it (see JackFish's post). The lifters have to be pulled when replacing the cam and are easier to do with the head removed, so the opportune time to replace the cam would be when you replace the head.
Good luck
Of course, when the engine is pulled, the radiator has to be removed.
It would be faster to replace the cam with the engine in the vehicle, but be Very Careful while doing it (see JackFish's post). The lifters have to be pulled when replacing the cam and are easier to do with the head removed, so the opportune time to replace the cam would be when you replace the head.
Good luck
8) my advice would be to first determine what condition the engine is in. if in overall good condition, then a cam swap is a weekend job. that said, my best advice would be to locate another 200, and build that engine completely ans swap the engines when the new one is done. that is also a weekend job.
Howdy again:
Here's some stuff to help you decode rearend tags on '79 ot '86 Salsbury differential rear ends.
The first third and fourth digits are the axle ratio. The second position indicates differential type. No letter is an open diff. an “L” indicates a Traction-Lok.
2 47 = 2.47:1 axle ratio (conventional)
2 73 = 2.73:1 axle ratio (conventional)
2L73 = 2.73:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3 08 = 3.08:1 axle ratio (conventional)
3L08 = 3.08:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3 27 = 3.27:1 axle ratio (conventional)
3L27 = 3.27:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3 45 = 3.45:1 axle ratio (conventional)
3L45 = 3.45:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3L73 = 3.73:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
The second set of digits indicates the ring gear size.
6 7 = 6.75" ring gear
7 5 = 7.5" ring gear
8 8 = 8.8" ring gear
The last digits indicate production date.
Year Month Day
9 = 1979 A = January 1 17
0 = 1980 B = February 2 18
1 = 1981 C = March 3 19
2 = 1982 D = April 4 20
3 = 1983 E = May 5 21
4 = 1984 F = June 6 22
5 = 1985 G = July 7 23
6 = 1986 H = August 8 24
J = September 9 25
K = October 10 26
L = November 11 27
M = December 12 28
Good hunting.
Adios, David
Here's some stuff to help you decode rearend tags on '79 ot '86 Salsbury differential rear ends.
The first third and fourth digits are the axle ratio. The second position indicates differential type. No letter is an open diff. an “L” indicates a Traction-Lok.
2 47 = 2.47:1 axle ratio (conventional)
2 73 = 2.73:1 axle ratio (conventional)
2L73 = 2.73:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3 08 = 3.08:1 axle ratio (conventional)
3L08 = 3.08:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3 27 = 3.27:1 axle ratio (conventional)
3L27 = 3.27:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3 45 = 3.45:1 axle ratio (conventional)
3L45 = 3.45:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
3L73 = 3.73:1 axle ratio w/ Traction-Lok
The second set of digits indicates the ring gear size.
6 7 = 6.75" ring gear
7 5 = 7.5" ring gear
8 8 = 8.8" ring gear
The last digits indicate production date.
Year Month Day
9 = 1979 A = January 1 17
0 = 1980 B = February 2 18
1 = 1981 C = March 3 19
2 = 1982 D = April 4 20
3 = 1983 E = May 5 21
4 = 1984 F = June 6 22
5 = 1985 G = July 7 23
6 = 1986 H = August 8 24
J = September 9 25
K = October 10 26
L = November 11 27
M = December 12 28
Good hunting.
Adios, David
