Figures 200

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i'm going to run 2 seperate thread one for the 200 and one for the 250

so here we go

stock 200

1965 falcon
listed numbers via falcon performance handbook
hp 120@4400rpm and tq 190ft/lbs@2400rpm

my numbers

hp 127@4000 and tq 189@3000

does anyone know the cfm on the stock carb?


can add or subtract just about anything you guy want
move timing around and so on.

taking all requests

and remember these numbers are theoretical and assume things ignition timing, air temp, engine temp and spark power are perfect.

things to ask for

cam profiles
comp ratio(depending on piston rod length and dish size etc.)
various intake and exhaust
airflow profiles for heads
power adders

the more info you give me the more acurate the results
 
here is execute's combo number 2

3 350cfm carbs with indivdual runners and a header
on a stock motor

hp 159@4000 and tq 225@3000

i'll do combo 1 for execute as soon as someone can tell
the stock length rods
 
Bill,
Thanks again for what you are doing - it's fantastic.

The stock carb pulls in just around 180CFM, I believe.
A Holley/Weber 5200 pulls about 280, I've been told.

What kind of numbers do you get with a stock 200 and that H/W 5200, with a 2.25" exhaust all the way back (single pipe out of original exhaust pipe, which I think is 1-7/8"). Thanks again!
 
For head flow at 28"Hg, see the lower blue lines on each graph, for the later D8 style head, assumed.

AzCoupe":3qdlh72f said:
Flow test results - CI Aluminum vrs OZ250-2V Cast
Intake
100=52 vs 63
200=99 vs 101
300=143 vs 133
400=180 vs 155
500=201 vs 156
600=210 vs 156
Exhaust
100=40 vs 36
200=79 vs 68
300=111 vs 91
400=144 vs 98
500=160 vs 103
600=164 vs 105

INTAKE FLOW CHART
intake-chart2.jpg

EXHAUST FLOW CHART
exhaust-chart2.jpg


Info required:-

Deck height .0xx"
Gasket thickness .xxx"
Head volume xx.x
Piston dish xx.x

intake valve
exhaust valve
stock headflow data #'s for xxx head (presume 28")
Intake 130cfm at xxx valve lift
Exhaust 45 cfm at xxx valve lift

the cam specs taken at .050
.xxx lift intake and exhaust
xxx duration, intake
xxx duration, exhaust
lobe center xxx
valve overlap -x.x
with no advance/retard


Found http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/engine/b ... ORD-78.rtf


There are always errors in it, use them to your advantage, racers! :twisted:

Max Compression 9.73:1 for 200, 9.66:1 on 250
1.51 rocker ratio (hydraulic) (1.52 250), later 1.61:1 in 1981
57.25cc
85HP 200, 94 hp 3.3 in 1981 or 97 hp 250
200 or 250 CUBES
deck .0015 for 200, 0.106 for 250
Flat top
1.757" inlet (1.744" in 1981
1.396" exhast (1.508" in 1981)
370 thou (400 thou by 1981)
370 thou (400 thou by 1981)
gasket .027 200, (.015 250)

Little six Cams varied HUGELY in duration and lift from 232 for 144/170, but 252 to 256 for the 200 and 250.
In 1960 to 1963, lift was 344/344
In 1964 to 1970, lift was 348/348
1960 144 engines at 232 duration, .360" lift before lash with an LSA of 111.
Pre 1971 200, lift was 348/348
Duration- 252 I/256 E, Int opens 7 btc, Int closes 65 abc, Ex opens 55 bbc, Ex closes 21 atc. Overlap 28 degrees, Lift .348".

The later models had 256 duration, .368" or .372" lift (nom 370).
In 1970 250, lift was 370/380
In 1971 250, lift was 370/370
In 1972, either 200 or 250 had 370/370 or 385/368  
In 1973, either 200 or 250 had 370/370 or 379/348
The 200 and 250 stayed 370/370 from 1974 to 1980, with a 400/400 cam for 1981 only, then back to 370/370 in 1982

According to Accelerated Motion, the best estimate 50 thou figures and lash readings for the cams were about 178/178 (1963-72 .371/.371 240/240) and 184/185 (1969-83 .392/.392 254/255)

Choas, but helpfull!
 
pssnmn1":156gcfvi said:
i'll do combo 1 for execute as soon as someone can tell
the stock length rods

Stock rod ratio for the 200 is 1.51:1, where the rod is 4.715" long and the stroke is 3.126", and pistons are 1.500 to 1.531" tall. There are some common Lima 5.2" rod and forged 1.04" Iapel pistons off the shelf in Argentina, so it can be improved to 1.66:1 without excessive expense :wink:

pssnmn1":156gcfvi said:
does anyone know the cfm on the stock carb?
cam profiles
comp ratio(depending on piston rod length and dish size etc.)
various intake and exhaust
airflow profiles for heads
power adders

Thank a search of the small and big six forums for this. 1965 200 carb flowed 185 cfm at 3"Hg

Having done some more research, the common late sixtees cam specs were normally 21,51/57,15, with intake duration 252, 36 degrees of overlap (ie average of 51-21, and 57-15) and thus a lobe centre of

((21+51+180)/2)-21 = 105
((57+15+180)/2)-15 = 111

Lobe centre is therefore an average of 105 and 111, or 108 degrees LCA.

This was a common cam since the first Stirrat designed Windsor 221 V8 in October 1961.

Updated Head cfm, here is the info:-

Note: There may be an issue over the early release graph on exhast and intake cfm's. I'll have to check it, as I think Mike said the actual numbers were not graphed properly.

I've just scaled the info off the graph anyway.

Intake cfm at 28"H20 for

Classic Inlines vs Oz 2V vs D8 head (assumed)

50 =72 vs 80 vs 62 cfm
100=99 vs 101 vs 75 cfm
200=143 vs 133 vs 110
300=180 vs 155 vs 120
400=201 vs 156 vs 125
500=210 vs 156 vs 125

Exhaust cfm at 28"H20 for

Classic Inlines vs Oz 2V vs D8 head (assumed)

50=58 vs 52 vs 52
100=79 vs 68 vs 68
200=111 vs 91 vs 91
300=144 vs 98 vs 98
400=160 vs 103 vs 103
500=164 vs 105 vs 105

Note that the log head 'flatlines' over 400 thou lift, so power won't increase with rpm or valve lift unless valve opening (duration) is increased.

Eight stock Carb choices.

All 1-bbls are rated at 3"Hg (40"H20), all 2-bbls at 3"Hg expect for the 5200/6520, which are rated at either 1.84 (25"H20) , 2 (28"H20) or 3"Hg (40"H20, depending on source):-

1) the CFMs on the #1904, #1908 and #1909s were fairly close to standard at 130 in a 144 engine application
-The #1904 was used in a variety of Ford cars on either the 215 ci six or the later 223 engines starting in 1952 on up to 1963 or 1964. It was used on the '60 Falcons with a manual choke. The Comets got an auto choke.
-'61 Holley model glass bowl 1904 on a 170 engine is rated at 150 cfm.
-The #1909 on a '62 with the 144 engine was down rated to 125 CFM
-The '62 Holley #1908 was similar to the #1904 and used in some '61’s .
-It was rated at 125 CFM in 144
-150 CFM in 170‘s.

2)In '62 the Comets and Meteors got the #1909 carbs. (The only factory applications other then '62 144 and 170 engines was on some '63 Ramblers).

3)Autolite#1100 has a cfm by engine size-
-144- 1.0" venturi - 130 cfm
-170- 1.1" venturi- 156 cfm
-'65 200- Throttle bore measures 1 7/16" while the plastic venturi is 1.1 or 1.2" and is rated at 185 cfm.
-170 ci carb was rated at 150 CFM's, in fact any 68 & 69 1100 is 150 cfm (1967 - 1972)
-The biggest one barrel carb is the Autolite #1101 at 210 cfm or so, from the 240 Big Six (65 to 66). #1101 throttle is 1 11/16", the venturi is 1.29".

4) The Holley #1940 is a generic replacement carb for all Autolites.

5)The Carter YF (1970 on wards) one barrel was about 187-195cfm
-200 ci carb was rated at 187 CFM's. (1970 - 1979
-250 ci carb was rated at 193 CFM's (1975-1979).
-300 ci carb was Carter YF at 195 cfm.

6)The RBS, rated at 215 was used on 250 engines from 1969 - 1974
-250 ci carb was rated at 193 CFM's (1975-1979).
-300 ci carb was rated at 220 CFM's. (F150 Truck)

7) 200 ci carb Holley #1946, about 180 cfm (1981-1984)

8.) The Holley #6520 2.3 Lima carb was 49 States approved and used on the Capri RS 3.3.

9) Common upgrade one is any #5200/5210/6500/6520 series 2-bbl Holley Weber (with Autolite part number to 1971), Cfm varied depending on rating. Pinto, Capri, Vega and Chrysler K-car ratings in Holleys website vary from 230, 235, 280 cfm, but there is a wide variance in arrangement, ventur size. The common Weber 32/36 is rated at 225 cfm at 1.84"Hg, or 235 cfm at 2"Hg or 280 cfm at 3"Hg

10) Common upgrades two is any #2300 or #2305 series 350 of 500 cfm 2-bbl Holley is rated at 3"Hg.

11) Common upgrade three is any 2-bbl #2100 Autolite is rated at 3"Hg

-0.98 venturi 190 cfm 221V8s
-1.01 venturi 245 cfm 221 & 260 V8s
-1.02 venturi 240 cfm 221 & 260 V8s
-1.08 venturi 287 cfm '66 & 67 302 V8s
-1.14 venturi 300 cfm '64 & 65 289 V8s
-1.21 venturi 351 cfm '70+ 351 V8's
-1.23 venturi 356 cfm '58 & up 332, 352 & early 390 V8s
-1.33 venturi 424 cfm '60 390s, 428 V8s in Ford trucks, Lincolns and Mercs.

12) Common upgrade four is probably the emmision spec #2150 Motorcraft, I've not got the ratings for them

13) Common upgrade five is the triple carb intake by Clifford or Offenhauser. Most often used is the 34mm 1-bbl Weber. It is the common Volkswagen Bettle and Vauxhall Firenza/Bedford CF/ Opel carb, which has a huge European parts back up. A similar amalgam of 1904, 1908, 1909 or 1940 Holleys have been used. It's far easier to make a 2/3 rd throttle Offy kit, and keep the car on a small primary carb, and then use the two outer carbs at wide open throttle.

14) Common upgrade six The 2v head was the least common swap before Ford Six.Com. Thankfully, things have changed! The carb most often used is the 2-bbl Weber 38 DGAS (about 320 cfm at 3"Hg) or 350 Holley 7448 or 500 cfm 4412 or 4-bbl 390 8007 or 465 cfm conversion. The 4-bbls are rated at 1.5"Hg.

Then SU HS6 (210 cfm at 1.84"Hg), HIF6 or 7's (245 to 280 cfm) and HD or HS8's (280 cfm at 1.84"Hg).
Quite a few DCOE 45 carbs sprang forth in the oval track and sports sedans days of 1970's Australia. Just one barrel with a 40 mm choke flows 290 cfm at 1.84"Hg!

Power adders are roller rockers with better rocker ratios (1.6:1 rather than 1.52:1), low restriction headers, headers, over size valves, backcut valves, three angle valve grinds, compression upgrades in unison with high lift cams, reduce loss drivetrains (T5 transmissions), Nitrous oxide (a 100 hp shot can yield 196 hp, 13.7 second quarter mile in 1963 Falcon with a stock 1966 200 1-bbl I6).

Superchargers (direct ratio, 1:1 4/71 with 284 cubes per rev, Eatons with 1.25:1 62, 90 or 112 per rev, or Ogura's 73 and 85 cubes per rev 1.25:1)

Turbos are T3 60 series as a start, then on up to the large gas turbine Does10's wife uses. :twisted:
 
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