I've given up hope Mr. krupa is going to resolve whatever problems he encountered in lining up a manufacturer.So, I'm planning on making a set for myself.I can't take credit for the idea for how, saw it on another forum;Piercing jewelry is key. Get the right size sparkplug for your engine, and get a "Non-resistor" type.Put it in the freezer so the center electrode can be removed.Get a Niobium ball from a pircing jeweler. Tap threads on the end of the electode. Screw the ball on, and re-inset the electode. Only thing i haven't figured out is how to make the ground electrode.Maybe get some Niobium 'bar stock' from the jeweler, along with some tips on how to shape and weld it, and shape it around a larger dia. steel ball? Anyone tried making there own, any success?Jim
Firestorm Plugs; makin' yer own
- Thread starter Divco man
- Start date
Snake oil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abwXApkLhbc
They claim that the engine can run at 24:1-100:1 ratios. Riiiight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abwXApkLhbc
They claim that the engine can run at 24:1-100:1 ratios. Riiiight.
24:1 no problem.
And your plugs get this nice aluminum coating spray-brazed onto them. Instead of changing spark plugs, you have to change pistons.
Plus I'll bet the NOX emissions are off the scale
And your plugs get this nice aluminum coating spray-brazed onto them. Instead of changing spark plugs, you have to change pistons.
Plus I'll bet the NOX emissions are off the scale
So, the overall concensus is they don't work? Is that because the inventor made "outrageous" claims, or because he was never able to produce any? As for 24:1, I assume thats compression ratio? If so, Endyne, (THEOLDONE.COM), has shown he/they could regularly set up engines to run at "impossible compression ratios", and I can think of many POSSIBLE reasons why the inventor might have not been able to produce a product.I find it hard to understand the inventor going the extra miles of getting a worldwide patent, and covering every possible variation, so as to totally lock it in, if He didn't believe they really worked.Anyway, it won't be that hard to make a set of 6, and see what, if any, difference it makes.Can't see how it could do any harm. I did notice the domain name is up for sale, so I guess the inventor has given up the effort.Jim
24:1 was the air:fuel ratio that he claimed he could run with his plugs. That's just a skosh lean. :roll:
Ah, well. If Endyne could run engines at 'impossible' compression ratios, perhaps its possible to run at 'impossible' A/F ratios.Not that I'm a 'true believer' or anything. Its just that I try to be as skeptical of 'conventional wisdom' as I am of these 'alternative' ideas.And, if its not real expensive, I figure I'll give it a try. Specially if it can't do any harm, and can easily be undone.Jim
8) all these people who claim to be able to run an engine at extremely lean a/f mixtures, or excessively high compression ratios, or both, wont tell you the problems, and how many engines they blew up, during the experimentation process. they just tell you the end product. they also dont tell you that you need to make sure everything is spot on their specs or you will have problems keeping engines together.
remember the old saying "if something seems too good to be true, it probably is".
remember the old saying "if something seems too good to be true, it probably is".
Divco man":235vylph said:
A little of both. If he has measured, confirmed, repeatable tests that back up his claims, it's one thing. I'm not taking anybody at their word, especially when they are trying to sell me something. Remember SplitFire plugs? The FTC sued them and won because none of their claims were borne out in testing. Same thing with Z-Max and a host of other companies selling miracle mileage and power products. They just don't work. Even K&N filters have "up to" 10 hp on their packaging now because they got sued. On some cars, the setups LOSE horsepower.
I'm not even going to START on that HHO nonsense.
Yeah, I'm with you on that nonsense, please, don't get started.I'm particularly leary of anything where they say "Buy it, and then become a salesman for it." Multi-level marketing, or whatever they call it.For every Amway, where the product was/is good, and works as claimed, there are 10 scams, it seems.And yes, I know there is plenty of snake oil sold as 'mileage enhancements'.Still, I think reports of the ICE's emminent demise are greatly egzaderated (sp?), because there is nothing else, as yet, that can do what it can.(I can't imagine electric ambulances, for example.)And, that said, Ice's aren't terribly efficient in the way they use gasoline.Pumping losses, waste heat, etc.Seems like there ought to be ways to improve the efficiency. I never thought just a sparkplug could make that much of a difference.I think its possible that changes to the carburetion/intake, ignition and timing, etc. in combination could make things more efficient. i.e. a 'wholeistic' approach.I'm also sceptical of the "If it could work, Detroit would have done it, years ago." argument.In any hierarchy, there are always people concerned with protecting #1, Their position in the hierarchy, and only #2 the hierarchy itself.And there are always those who are threatened by innovation.I'm also leary of 'accepted wisdom'. There are too many examples to list of people who proposed something which defied accepted wisdom, were ridiculed and maligned, only to eventually be proved correct.So, if something makes sense to me, seems doable, not too expensive, and is reversible, I'll try it.I'm not a scientist, or inventor. If I find something that works, I have no interest in marketing it, therefore I'm not doing any carefully documented and detailed testing.I know what my milktruck was getting before, (in mileage), and if there's a significant improvement I'll be able to tell.And thats all I'm looking for.Jim
Ha, if it was in any way innovative, Detroit sure wouldn't have a thing to do with it. Not in the last 50 years at least. The Japanese or French might, though. They mass-marketed several innovations. Wankel engines. Miller cycle engines. Variable valve timing. Variable valve lift. FWD. Hydropneumatic suspension. The list goes on...
Yeah, ya got that right, Detroit has an institutional aversion to innovation.Thing is, there is the FISH carb. Guy started producing them himself, selling them mail order. A small constant velocity carb,very simple. Only 10 parts or so in the thing,1 moving part unless ya count the linkage.Was said you could even run your car on kerosene with it, in a pinch.Got indicted for mail fraud, and it cleaned him out from lawyers fees, but he was vindicated.It did everything he said.I think it was his son who started it up again in the 80's, at least for awhile producing an improved version.If you can find one, they fetch 300-500 bucks or more,now.I know your probably sceptical, and I KNOW the inventor has major production problems, but I'm very intrigued with the Omni=valves.Omni-valves,(if I can get a set, I've been talking to the guy for over a month now) with a constant velocity carb with screens, either a fish or predator, and a few other 'tweaks' for the engine, the diet I put my truck on, and the draft reduction, hopefully some of it will prove worthwhile!Jim
I've seen a good bit on the Fish carbs, Pogue carbs et al. They don't seem to actually work that well. Main problem with the Fish carb is that it seems waay down on power on anything bigger than a 1200cc Mini engine.
They say the Pogue carbs don't work well today because "today's gas is different." I do know that a 100-mpg carb violates the first law of thermodynamics.
For me, if there's no verified tests, I treat it as probably false until unequivocal third-party tests are done.
I couldn't look at the Omni-valve thing here at work, but I will comment later. There's only one website for it, and nobody is really discussing it. Kind of like a Reed valve setup, something like that?
They say the Pogue carbs don't work well today because "today's gas is different." I do know that a 100-mpg carb violates the first law of thermodynamics.
For me, if there's no verified tests, I treat it as probably false until unequivocal third-party tests are done.
I couldn't look at the Omni-valve thing here at work, but I will comment later. There's only one website for it, and nobody is really discussing it. Kind of like a Reed valve setup, something like that?
I would be skeptical of a 44% increase. If he claimed 10% that would be more believable.
Next big thing is supposed to be plasma ignitors instead of spark plugs.
As for K&N airfilters say what you want but when i put one in my Probe SE i could tell the difference as soon as I pulled out of the parking lot of the store I bought it at.
Next big thing is supposed to be plasma ignitors instead of spark plugs.
As for K&N airfilters say what you want but when i put one in my Probe SE i could tell the difference as soon as I pulled out of the parking lot of the store I bought it at.
Pougue carbs and Fish carbs are different animals. The early ones (fish carbs) were designed for smaller engines, since he was designing for economy.So, they were sized for flathead and inline/slant 6's, smaller ones like the 223. Then, people wanted them for V-8's, so he made a 2 barrel model. They are REALLY rare, because it was soon after that that the Postal Inspectors moved in, and arrested him for mail fraud.In the 80's, someone (his son, I think) ressurected the product, for a while. They improved the basic design in all sorts of ways, including sizing it bigger.Since it is a type of Constant Velocity carb, you really can't overcarb.On the otherhand, the drawback to the predator, (another Constant velocity carb) is that the makers were totally focused on performance, and so its BIG. Its 'rated' 300-900CFM, and theres another, Kendig i think its called, goes to 1100 or 1200 cfm.To each there own, and its fine for you to say "Prove it with independent testing before I'll buy", its your $ after all.Such testing and documentation costs a lot of bucks, and its not always easy to verify the independance. A lot of health food/alternative medicines quote some study, usually conducted outside the US, and impossible to verify.As for the 3rd rule of thermodynamics, I always think about stomach ulcers.For 50 years or more, it was established medical knowledge that ulcers are caused by stress.There was this Dr. that went to work in Africa for awhile, living with the people he was caring for, a tribe with a simple lifestyle.Some of them had stomach ulcers. Observing there lifestyle, it seemed to be fairly unstressful.(They didn't own watches, or know how to tell time with one, for example.) And he saw that some who didn't have ulcers seemed to have more stress than some of those who did.So, he rejected 'conventional wisdom', and tested both those with and without ulcers. He found those with invariably had H.Pylori bacteria in their stomachs, and those without never did. He treated them with an anti-biotic,and they were cured of their ulcers. When he returned to the U.S., he documented his research, and went around to AMA meetings to make a presentation of his findings.Invaribly within the first 2 minutes, people were leaving, and shouting him down with derisive comments.Fortunately, he published his findings and they were eventually accepted.I'm more experianced with medical science than with engineering science, and medical science is full of similar stories. I'm sure engineering is, too."If God had meant for man to fly, he'd have given him wings." So, I don't know if 100 mpg AND decent performance in real life driving conditions is possible. I do believe that ICE's are fairly inneficient, and if the efficiency could be improved the mileage would go up.Oh, and over 100 mpg in a car has been achieved, with lots of testing and independeant documentation.In the 50's or 60's, I believe it was, they had a mileage contest. An aquaintance recently bought 1 of the cars, that was entered by Shell oil.It got something like 140 m.p.g. Its a fiat, although other entrants used Opels.The track was a flat oval, so no grades, and the maximum required speed was something like 14 mph.The air intake is fully insulated, and heated by the exhaust.I'm sure theres lots of other tricks, but thats whats immediately obvious.Anyway, thats why I qualified about reasonable performance.Jim
My Bad! 
I wrote the stuff in the earlier post (about the Fish carb) from memory, which is either the 1st or last thing to go, I can't remember which!In bas-ackwards fashion, after I posted I googled Fish carb to refresh my memory. He started making them in the 1930's, not 50's, and he wasn't arrested by the Postal inspectors, they just returned all his packages stamped "Fraudulent" for a time.That corrects the most glaring errors.
I wrote the stuff in the earlier post (about the Fish carb) from memory, which is either the 1st or last thing to go, I can't remember which!In bas-ackwards fashion, after I posted I googled Fish carb to refresh my memory. He started making them in the 1930's, not 50's, and he wasn't arrested by the Postal inspectors, they just returned all his packages stamped "Fraudulent" for a time.That corrects the most glaring errors.Careful,now; You should know I came into this forum through the "Vintage" group.A high school auto shop teacher had a 1930's 10 passenger bus donated to him, for his class to restore. A great teaching tool, very basic.So he had his class go thru it from 1 end to the other and completely restore it, original.Then, to demonstrate why we have emissions controls, he took it down to get it inspected, even tho its exempt.They did a tailpipe test on it, and to his chagrin, It Passed!Not only that, it got around 24 mpg.I doubt todays vehicles, of comparable size, with their thinner metal bodies, crunch zones, etc. get much better mileage. 
Coarse, it probably couldn't do 75 mph, and may not have had the acceleration of todays vehicles.
Heres another one, I read in a car magazine; Two buddies decided to go fishing, about 100 miles from home. They decided to take both their vehicles, a 60's Cadillac, and a new Mini-cooper.They both gassed up at the start, and for the hell of it decide to keep track of their mileage.They drove in tandem the whole way. The Caddy got slightly better mileage than the mini-cooper.The Caddy is geared for cruising at 75, with the big motor just barely ticking over at 75. The minicoopers small motor on the other hand, was running at pretty high rpm's, to run at 75.So how much have we really improved things, in the last 25 years or so?Fleet mileage, comparing cars now with cars of 30 years ago, hasn't really changed significantly."Oh, but look how much safety has improved".My Dad had a 67 Plymouth Gran Fury. (I come by my love of Vintage honestlY). He was on the freeway, and there was a stopping of traffic. He slowed and stopped about 10' behind the car in front of him. The car behind him hit him at about 35 - 50 mph.He said he felt a slight bump, and it pushed him into the car in front of him.Both the (Newer) cars in front and behind were towed away, and probably totals.And, the people were treated for injuries. My Dad drove away. If you looked real close, you can see that the front and rear bumpers were each pushed in (towards the center of the car) about 1/8". My Dad had no injuries.Hmmmmmm....
Coarse, it probably couldn't do 75 mph, and may not have had the acceleration of todays vehicles.Heres another one, I read in a car magazine; Two buddies decided to go fishing, about 100 miles from home. They decided to take both their vehicles, a 60's Cadillac, and a new Mini-cooper.They both gassed up at the start, and for the hell of it decide to keep track of their mileage.They drove in tandem the whole way. The Caddy got slightly better mileage than the mini-cooper.The Caddy is geared for cruising at 75, with the big motor just barely ticking over at 75. The minicoopers small motor on the other hand, was running at pretty high rpm's, to run at 75.So how much have we really improved things, in the last 25 years or so?Fleet mileage, comparing cars now with cars of 30 years ago, hasn't really changed significantly."Oh, but look how much safety has improved".My Dad had a 67 Plymouth Gran Fury. (I come by my love of Vintage honestlY). He was on the freeway, and there was a stopping of traffic. He slowed and stopped about 10' behind the car in front of him. The car behind him hit him at about 35 - 50 mph.He said he felt a slight bump, and it pushed him into the car in front of him.Both the (Newer) cars in front and behind were towed away, and probably totals.And, the people were treated for injuries. My Dad drove away. If you looked real close, you can see that the front and rear bumpers were each pushed in (towards the center of the car) about 1/8". My Dad had no injuries.Hmmmmmm....
