First start, not firing up...

[mysavioreigns]

Thanks for the tip Vann...I am pretty sure we checked it, but I'll doublecheck to make sure.

Guys, I just thought of something else that might be the culprit. I never did "pre-tune" the carb. I know the idle screw should be ~2.5 turns out, but I'm not sure which one that is. Any pointers on which one it is?

The other thing is, I wonder if it has something to do with the choke. I doubt it, but it's worth a shot. I have the electric choke wired to the STATOR on the alternator, as well as the heater hose going through it. The chokeplates are closed when starting. Also, it's going from about 30 - 45 degrees here.

 

[Bort62]

I would manually crank the choke full open for first start.

 

[BUZZ]

Unless your plugs are just soaking wet with fuel you should get at least some kinda sign of life like a fireball from your carb timing to advanced or a back fire time retarded. At least I think thats the right order It might be the other way, but any ways if your dissy is any where close to tdc on the #1 cyl you should get some sign.If not you got something way off.
The card adj will keep it from running right but its not going to keep it from at least making some kinda attempt to start.You could even pull the carb completely off pour a little gas down the intake and it should at least try to run for a second, but I would recomend you doing that, because of the chance of a fire or a uncontrolled high rpm rev.

 

[mysavioreigns]

Thanks...maybe I should have mentioned that (sorry!) I did see a very small fireball shoot from the carb. It could have been a backfire though, as I know I have seen that a couple times already. So, that leads me back to timing. I really think that is the culprit; just need to figure out where it's right.

 

[BUZZ]

Sometimes its real close but not close enough I've had to jump one post foward on the cap or back one post and have it start right up, it just depends on how close your timing really is. Its not hard at all to be off of tdc very much when your dealing with a dissy gear and the way it relates to the cam gear. one tooth is a big jump in timing.

Rotate your dissy all the way one way then try the other and see which one gives it the most life then try it inbetween.If it's all the way as far as it can go before you get a cough try moving all your plug wires around one post on your dissy and see if its any better.

 

[wallaka]

I don't even care where I initally stab the dizzy in--I just look at rotor position and put the plug wires where I can have a full range of adjustment without the vac advance hitting the block.

 

[mysavioreigns]

try moving all your plug wires around one post on your dissy and see if its any better.

haha, I remember doing that a long time ago on another engine I had.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

 

[250mav]

just another hought. one time i was trying to quickly fire up an engine and at the time there was only 1 out of 4 studs holding the carb to the intake but it was such an excessive vacume leak it was just way too lean to fire. im sure you dont have anything that extream gong on but its something else that may be worth a check

good luck

 

[Marine05]

Dont mean to make you sound dumb or anything but just throwin it out there, when you put the timing chain on, did you make sure to align the cam and crank. With the fireball goin carb side, tells me ur intake is open a little when it fires. Maybe a bad valve seat, or too high lobe on a cam.

 

[mysavioreigns]

Well, I do wonder slightly about that. Turns out when you mix and match years, it makes things complicated I was going to run the vacuum from the Load-O to the carb, and on the Load-O it was a hard (steel) line, while the 5200 accepts a rubber line. So, I bought a hose barb, which sorta worked. It screwed in there like 1 thread and stuck, so that's good for now, I think.

anyways, I'll check some more, but I don't think there's anything else

 

[mysavioreigns]

@ marine05, you beat me to the post.

I'm not sure, as I didn't build the engine. I'm not sure really what to do with that though. Hopefully it's the timing first...

 

[addo]

What is your cold cranking pressure?

The other note, is that you're starting to get (as I see it) into the danger zone of cranking and cranking and cranking. It should have started by now. You will be washing the bores and starting to wear the cam lobes shortly.

At some point, you need to stop and quantify exactly what's there. Simply persisting is not so good, as it would have fired by now.

 

[BUZZ]

I totally agree with addo. If it won't fire and if you didn't build it I believe I'd run a compression test. The builder could have not properly lined up the timing marks,not installed rings (sounds silly but I've seen it) or as already stated your valves are not closing all the way, but either way a compression test would tell something.

 

[Marine05]

Easiest thing to do is run the comp. test, if its low, pull the front cover and check the markings. That would be the only possible explination. But hey, im only a mechanic and built a 200 ground up. But try it out, just stuff a rag in the plug hole and turn the engine with a socket.

 

[mysavioreigns]

Well, while I do agree with addo that I would be getting close, I've only tried it 3-4 times, not over and over - the car is over at a friend's house, and I gather some ideas and go over there and try them. I would think it would take a few more to get it that bad. That being said, it's a great idea to run the compression test. I'll let you guys know what I get.

Oh yea, and I pulled a stupid move. I hooked the electric choke on the 5200 to the STATOR port on the alternator. When I went over there last night, the battery was dead as a doornail. Guess I'll have to put it on a terminal that is 12V when switched on

 

[fordconvert]

Some of the OE ford chokes were meant to run off another special terminal on the alternators, seems like that ended up being around 7 volts. AFIK all the rest of the makes used 12V. I have had some I ran through a ballast resistor to make them last a bit longer.

 

[jahearne]

Do you have adjustable rockers?
I banged my head for ages trying to figure out why my new motor (rebuild and modified by somebody else) wouldn't start. I double checked, triple checked every thing! dialed-in the cam, purchased new timing chain.

I even purchased a new cam, but kept the same lifters. Only when I switched over to an adjustable rocker arms when the engine sputtered some life. I swear to F^%$#@%^* that those solid lifters look just like hydraulic lifters. The valves were never closing even with adj. rockers, I still gave them a quarter turn. A cold compression check with solid lifters and non-adjustable rockers put out good even numbers, 170 lbs if I remember correctly.

 

[mysavioreigns]

Well here's what happened last night:

Ran a compression check. This was my first one I've ever done. Pretty funny to see that gauge shoot across the garage

Ran the compression check, this time holding it down in there. I got 120, 110, 115, 120, 105, 120. They look pretty consistent. The checker I was using was probably not calibrated, because the guy was telling me it was really old. But it did the job, and I got consistent numbers, so I think that is worth something. So, is that too low?

Then, I was about to leave. I know we have messed with the timing again and again, but I thought, I'll quintuple check it, JUST to be sure again. It was 180* off. Apparently the last time we figured that out, we forgot to put it back. So that could definitely be one problem.

Back over there again today, I'll let you know what I see. And, I'll look for the rockers jahearne

 

[Lazy JW]

That's plenty of compression for it to start and run just fine.

Get the timing set and it will start.
Joe

 

[mysavioreigns]

Thanks for the confirmation Joe,

Cross your fingers and say a prayer folks!