Forged crankshaft for a build with a turbo

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gert

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I'm setting out to build a 300 the same as the one on Powernation TV that produces 500 + HP at the flywheel.

Their core is from an industrial water sprayer which has the forged crankshaft ( according my understanding)

My core will be from a 1987 Ford F150 EFI.

My question: Will a cast crankshaft be able to handle 500 + HP or is a forged crankshaft a must? I will go with forged pistons from DSS Racing and forged connecting rods from Molnar Technologies.

I'm budgeting 10k for this build so I want this to be a solid engine.
 
Do not copy the Power Nation build!!!!
The compression ratio is too high for pump gas and the turbocharger is too large .
Notice they only were able to get boost over 4000 rpm and the power band was very short because of the large turbocharger.

The crankshaft in the Power Nation video was cast iron, not forged steel.

The stock cast crank has held up to 500 to 600 hp with a turbocharger.
 
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I want to keep it simple and go for EFI

**update: meant to say that I want to do with EFI the same as on Powernation on the final run**
 
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The wet fuel distribution in long I6 carb and TBI manifolds is a large handicap to both power and reliability. As the engine can only run as strong as the weakest cylinder, you are always limiting max capability -or- pushing one or more cylinders past the reasonable safety line if trying to find an 'average'. Your fuel and ignition control are the most important factors in both extracting maximum energy, and enabling the application of it. Don't short yourself at power levels this high. All IMO, and BTDT.
 
PSIG said:
The wet fuel distribution in long I6 carb and TBI manifolds is a large handicap to both power and reliability. As the engine can only run as strong as the weakest cylinder, you are always limiting max capability -or- pushing one or more cylinders past the reasonable safety line if trying to find an 'average'. Your fuel and ignition control are the most important factors in both extracting maximum energy, and enabling the application of it. Don't short yourself at power levels this high. All IMO, and BTDT.
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What would you do for fuel?
 
pmuller9 said:
Do not copy the Power Nation build!!!!
The compression ratio is too high for pump gas and the turbocharger is too large .
Notice they only were able to get boost over 4000 rpm and the power band was very short because of the large turbocharger.

The crankshaft in the Power Nation video was cast iron, not forged steel.

The stock cast crank has held up to 500 to 600 hp with a turbocharger.
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I corrected my post to say that I want to go with Holley Sniper EFI the same as they do on Powernation.

Who would be best to advise on Turbo size and everything else? I understand that Summit Racing has professionals on staff to advise on everything related to engine building. Is Summit Racing a good source to relay on or are they more about just selling?

Also, with a smaller turbo, would the 300 still be able to make 500 HP? Maybe aiming for 500 HP should not be the top priority?

I appreciate the help!
 
gert said:
What would you do for fuel?
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Port EFI or ITB/Weber-type EFI throttle bodies. Of course, the point is per-cylinder fueling to avoid fuel distribution issues. Whatever control you use for that will have coordinated ignition control.
gert said:
Also, with a smaller turbo, would the 300 still be able to make 500 HP? Maybe aiming for 500 HP should not be the top priority?
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You need to set your goals and stick to them. Drag-only? Street? Any fuel? Pump gas? Drivability and so on. Then you can pick 'n choose parts and mods to get there. While the turbo compressor sets the airflow for a specific range of power, and it can limit lower boost levels (surge) ā€” it's primarily the turbine and turbine housing combination that sets where a certain compressor makes its boost.

Oversimplified: Pick your compressor to match your engine build and flows required (from your goals), then pick your turbine and housing to make that flow where you need it. Some of it can be calculated, while some seems witchcraft šŸ˜œ for what exhaust flows through what housing will spin what turbine, when. Garrett has some good basic overview pages on all this that will help you find the next step, or to give some confirmation of what somebody suggests you use. The many online articles and videos surrounding Ā±500hp Ford 302/5.0L would be a relative comparison to get the feel for it, and note the differences for "POWER!" pursuits versus an awesome driving experience.

Example 500+hp stock 5.0, so huge heads and other stuff you don't have aren't used. Note basic concepts, similarities to yours, plus the boost and power range, and the fuel used. Anything can be turned-down with a knob for lower-octane fuel. :sneaky:
 
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4,6-71 or Whipple blower, much better for a streeter, and easier to match to the engine. Generally 500bhp is about 3.0 times the stock output, so basicly you need around 3 times the manifold pressure, so around 300kPa, thats 200kpa boost, or a pressure ratio of 3;1 which is starting to get pretty high. You will almost surely get into detonation problems with available fuels. Whilst it can be done with a turbo, you will find that for general driving a positive displacement blower will "feel" a lot better. Can I suggest you do some reading on this subject, its fraught with traps for the inexperienced. I run a manifold pressure of around 200kpa from a twin screw blower for totally street use, this gives a really responsive high torque engine that idles like mums shopping trolley and is fun to drive.
 
gert said:
I corrected my post to say that I want to go with Holley Sniper EFI the same as they do on Powernation.
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Using the Holley Super Sniper on a Offenhauser intake manifold will work.
The distribution to all six cylinders is not perfect but is within reason.

The only problem I see with the Holley units is that the computer is on the throttle body just above the exhaust system where heat can take its toll on longevity.
I would strongly consider the Aces Killshot throttle body injection where the ECU is separate and can be mounted in the cab area away from heat and vibration.
 
pmuller9 said:
Using the Holley Super Sniper on a Offenhauser intake manifold will work.
The distribution to all six cylinders is not perfect but is within reason.

The only problem I see with the Holley units is that the computer is on the throttle body just above the exhaust system where heat can take its toll on longevity.
I would strongly consider the Aces Killshot throttle body injection where the ECU is separate and can be mounted in the cab area away from heat and vibration.
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I saw the Aces Killshot throttle body injection at SEMA in Vegas in November. I will look into it further.
 
gert said:
Who would be best to advise on Turbo size and everything else? I understand that Summit Racing has professionals on staff to advise on everything related to engine building. Is Summit Racing a good source to relay on or are they more about just selling?

Also, with a smaller turbo, would the 300 still be able to make 500 HP? Maybe aiming for 500 HP should not be the top priority?

I appreciate the help!
Click to expand...
No one knows the 300 six better than we do.
In order to make 500 hp you don't need to work the engine past 5500 rpm.
From experience, a cam with a .050" duration at 232 degrees with a 112 LSA makes peak torque at 3600 rpm and will make power to 5500 rpm.

Using Matchbot, a turbocharger with a 64 mm compressor inducer will easily make 500 hp at 15 lbs of boost in that rpm range using an intercooler with a 60% to 70% efficiency.
 
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aussie7mains said:
4,6-71 or Whipple blower, much better for a streeter, and easier to match to the engine. Generally 500bhp is about 3.0 times the stock output, so basicly you need around 3 times the manifold pressure, so around 300kPa, thats 200kpa boost, or a pressure ratio of 3;1 which is starting to get pretty high. You will almost surely get into detonation problems with available fuels. Whilst it can be done with a turbo, you will find that for general driving a positive displacement blower will "feel" a lot better. Can I suggest you do some reading on this subject, its fraught with traps for the inexperienced. I run a manifold pressure of around 200kpa from a twin screw blower for totally street use, this gives a really responsive high torque engine that idles like mums shopping trolley and is fun to drive.
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Can you suggest some sources for reading on this? My dad had an auto recycling yard and, later on, a repair shop when I was growing up. We would rebuild engines but nothing beyond stock, so I know the basics, but I need to learn when it comes to turbocharging and boosting.
 
You are better off coping the turbocharged Jeep six engine.
They used an 8.6 static compression ratio.
We do not like to bore the 300 six more than needed to clean up the cylinder walls in order to maintain the thickest walls possible.
If you are using the highly recommended Promaxx CNC ported head, You would be looking at a custom piston with a 28 cc dish.
 
gert said:
Can you suggest some sources for reading on this? My dad had an auto recycling yard and, later on, a repair shop when I was growing up. We would rebuild engines but nothing beyond stock, so I know the basics, but I need to learn when it comes to turbocharging and boosting.
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A Graham Bell's "Forced induction" is the best one I've read. If you could find one, Ricardo's "high speed internal combustion engines" a bit advanced for the novice. Some of Phil Irvings stuff covers supercharging, but I doubt you can locate one these days. There is another I have By Eldred Norman, but this was only in Australia, its good however.
 
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^Get this book. A Graham Bell's
Mr. Muller have you read this book? I liked it better than Hugh's or Corky's
 
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drag-200stang said:
^Get this book. Graham Bell's
Mr. Muller have you read this book? I liked it better than Hugh's or Corkey's
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I have only read the book by Corky Bell.
I find that once you have a basic understanding of turbocharging and supercharging, you can learn a great deal from manipulating the inputs for a specific engine build using BorgWarner MatchBot.
 
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A positive displacement supercharger like the Whipple will provide the widest power band.
You would be looking at a 175 for a 300 six.
However the bare unit is $3000 and by the time you get it set up it will eat up nearly half your budget.

The other thing to consider is that a positive displacement axial supercharger has the throttle body on the inlet and typically uses port fuel injection because of that.
You wanted TBI.
Someone might say that you can use TBI as a draw thru on the SC inlet but you really need an intercooler to get the power you want while having the lowest fuel octane requirement and having an intercooler full of air/fuel mixture is not safe.
 
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Gilwelding has a kit for mpfi using an aussiespeed intake.
www.gillwelding.com

Ford 240/300 Aussiespeed AS0142 EFI | gillwelding

Gill Welding & Fabrications Direct Modified Aussiespeed AS0142. This kit includes:(1) Aussiespeed AS0142(1) GWF Ford 240/300 Fuel Rail Optional Items:(1) 1200 CFM "4150 Style" Throttle Body (without sensors) Injectors, ECU, Sensors, and Fuel Delivery Systems are not included and require a...
www.gillwelding.com www.gillwelding.com
 
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