Getting ready to build a Turbo 200 I6

[seanrace]

I am getting ready to build a 200 ci I6 and I am needing some information. I am planning on this car being fun to drive and I will probably not race it (that much). I love the idea of fabbing/designing my own turbo setup and I figure if I am going to have it under the hood it had better perform as well. All show and no go is a waste in my opinion.

To start I have 200 out of a 1979 Fairmont, about 90000 miles, all original. Planning on a build so I can add a turbo and about 10-12 psi of boost. Motor is going in a 1964 Falcon Station Wagon which is currently all stock with a 170/2 speed.

Motor is now at the machine shop and will need to be bored .030-.040" in order to true up the cylinders. I think this much of an overbore will be ok but I would like a 2nd opinion.

I am planning on ordering CI Forged Pistons with the dish and using the stock rods and crank. Will the factory rods be ok becasue there seems to be some questions as to whether the rods in this motor would be forged or iron. How do you tell?? part # or visual?

I am planning on zero decking the block and adjusting to 8.5:1 CR with the Corteco head gasket. I plan on running 93 octane with an intercooler. Is there a rule of thumb as to how high you can go on CR vs amount of boost without detonation based on the fuel and intercooler?

I would also like some ideas for a turbo, especially from people running similar setups. I have done the math and referred to some turbo selction algorithms. They have pointed to a Garrett GT25 and T04E 60 trim. I am wanting about 300 hp and and I want it to come in at between 1500 and 5000 rpm.

I also am wondering if there is a good thread with pics detailing modifying a carb for blow thruough.

This all I can think of now. Let me know if I have missed anthing important.

 

[seanrace]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I am going to use the stock head for now. Planning on 3 angle valve job, port and polish, and modifying the head for a Holley 350 carb setup for blow thru. I may upgrade to TBI once the original setup is ironed out. Eventually a the CI Aluminum Head and FI will go on the car. Can't put that much $$ in a motor all at once.

What is the opinion of the Holley carb? Any other ones I should keep an eye out for? The holley 350's seem be everywhere at the pic a part yards and that is where I got the idea of using it.

 

[Anlushac11]

I am getting ready to build a 200 ci I6 and I am needing some information. I am planning on this car being fun to drive and I will probably not race it (that much). I love the idea of fabbing/designing my own turbo setup and I figure if I am going to have it under the hood it had better perform as well. All show and no go is a waste in my opinion.

To start I have 200 out of a 1979 Fairmont, about 90000 miles, all original. Planning on a build so I can add a turbo and about 10-12 psi of boost. Motor is going in a 1964 Falcon Station Wagon which is currently all stock with a 170/2 speed.

Motor is now at the machine shop and will need to be bored .030-.040" in order to true up the cylinders. I think this much of an overbore will be ok but I would like a 2nd opinion.

The only way to know 100% is to do a sonic testing of the block. Generally .040" overbore is safe but it depends on condition of the block.

My motor is a D8 (1978) build and came out of a 1981 Mustang. My block bored to .040" overbore with no problem.

I am planning on ordering CI Forged Pistons with the dish and using the stock rods and crank. Will the factory rods be ok becasue there seems to be some questions as to whether the rods in this motor would be forged or iron. How do you tell?? part # or visual?

I am running the CI forged pistons. I had piston skirts dry film lubricant coated to reduce cylinder wall-piston skirt scuffing and to reduce friction drag.

Do you know how to read Ford part numbers?

C=60's
D=70's
E=80's

Next number is the year, thus a rod with a P/N starting with D8 would be a 1978 rod, a rod P/N starting with C9 would be a 1969 rod.

Up to 1973 all small block inline six rods are forged steel. Best choice
From 1973 to 1978 Ford used cast iron rods - Worst choice
In 1979 Ford went to a cast steel rod
In 1980 Ford went to a nodular iron rod

I found some reconditioned C3 170 reconditioned rods on Ebay and purchased them (170 and 200 use same length rod). I then polished the beams and had ARP rod bolts installed. Entire engine rotating assembly was balanced. by Balancing shop. I am planning a 6200rpm redline based partly on my factory rods and mostly because I am running a hydraulic cam.

I am planning on zero decking the block and adjusting to 8.5:1 CR with the Corteco head gasket. I plan on running 93 octane with an intercooler. Is there a rule of thumb as to how high you can go on CR vs amount of boost without detonation based on the fuel and intercooler?

With a turbo run as low a compression ratio as possible, but probably not power than 8.0:1.

Lower CR and when used with a dished piston promote volumetric cylinder filling. I had read that is one reason Ford went to lower compression on the EFI turbo motors. The incoming fuel air mixture rushing in to fill the area has a head long rush and rushes in fast enough that it packs into the cylinder better. The dished piston helps promote tumbling which helps promote better cylinder filling and better mixing.

How much boost you can run depends entirely on air temperature, air fuel mixture ratio, load on engine, etc.

IMHO and I am no expert I am guessing that 8-10lbs is no problem, might to be able to run 12 depending on weather. I plan to run E85 for the higher octane and the cooling effect alcohol has.

I would also like some ideas for a turbo, especially from people running similar setups. I have done the math and referred to some turbo selction algorithms. They have pointed to a Garrett GT25 and T04E 60 trim. I am wanting about 300 hp and and I want it to come in at between 1500 and 5000 rpm.

My setup is being built to run a Garrett T3 .60/.63 which I expect to run in same rpm range. I could be wrong but I felt that the GT25 was too small, I was looking more toward a GT28 to GT30.

If I had money to buy a new turbo the T04E was one I was looking at but was told best would be a T3/T4 hybrid. I would feel more comfortable running a T04E if I was running the CI the much deeper breathing CI aluminum head.

I have a D8 log head, 1.80"intake, 1.50" exhaust, ported exhaust and valve pockets, log modified for Holley 2bbl. Would give a arm and leg for CI aluminum head but Mike quit taking payments in body parts.

I was looking for low end throttle response but enough flexibility to run up to 4500-5000rpm, and rev to 6000rpm.

I am hoping for 300hp, but expect more around 250-275hp due to the asthmatic log head. I have driven my friends 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and if my car runs close to that setup I will have no complaints. TC runs about 200hp and 3400lbs, I will be running more horsepower and LOTS more low end torque and be about 800lbs lighter. Im guessing your wagon should run 2600-2800lb range.

I am also running a 272deg dur and .450" lift cam with 110deg lobe centers, double roller timing chain, and
cam run at 107deg.

My setup is going into a 2600lb 1985 Mustang Coupe with T5 manual and 8.8" traction lock rear with 3.73:1 gears and SN95 rear disc brakes. That setup is similar to the Mustang SVO and Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. My car is intended to run autocross and Gymkhana's but still be civil on the street and cruise night.

In need to get car running soon due to my 89 Mustang daily driver being killed in January, I may drop a C4 in car til T5 is done.

I also am wondering if there is a good thread with pics detailing modifying a carb for blow thruough.

This all I can think of now. Let me know if I have missed anthing important.

I am building a 350cfm Holley 2bbl that was given to me. This is site I used for info to modify my carb for blow through. Carb not finished because roommate loaned out my Sawzall I was using to cut off air horn. :roll:

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[rocklord]

These are the rods you need - forged:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT

or theses:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT

 

[64 200 ranchero]

i have some up for sale on ebay for way cheeper, they are a set of 6 B&P rods http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... :MESELX:IT

 

[Anlushac11]

Seems I forgot to add link to blow through carb modifications.

http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html

The B&P rods are what I bought. Just be sure to inspect the pads as some of the ones I got had almost no pads left on top and bottom for balancing.