head shaved...push rods not...HELP!

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well, evidenttaly, by talking to a QUALIFIED MACHANIC...not the one I have been going to...(jerk :evil: )...when I had the valve job done...they milled some off the deck and didnt do a thing to the push rods...hense my loud tapping... unfortunately I have to pull the head to find out EXACTLY WHAT WAS DONE...it could be a collapsed lifter but...

so I have been waiting for the stupid jerk to fix it for free...but you know when its free...its at HIS time descresion...

so now my transmission went on my 97 BMW (Big Money Wastepile) and I have to drive the stang, tapping and all...

then I will get the stang fixed by a QUALIFIED person...

FRUSTRATED!!!!!


oH SHâ„¢T....FORGOT MY QUESTION:

HOW CAN I TELL WHAT HAS BEEN MILLED OFF WHEN I REMOVE THE HEAD? I need to fix what machanic man broke...
 
Machining down the deck or even the head would effectivly make the push rods longer. Which should not make a ticking sound. It sounds more like a lifter. But if in dought get a set of adjustable rocker arms.
 
If you cc your head now, reference against stock values and note about 2cc loss per 10 thou shaved. That should get you in the right direction.

Adam.
 
Chaz;
I'm sorry to say, it sounds like you've been bitten by the HEAD GASKET BUG. In your mechanic's defense, he probably knew nothing about it, as only those familiar with these engines know the truth - and, here it is:

Ford used steel head gaskets on these engines that were .020" thick when assembled. ALL aftermarket head gaskets are either .045" thick (Victor/NAPA) or .055" thick (FelPro). So, if you had your head milled .010" and then used a Victor/NAPA gasket (which most auto shops do), then your compression went DOWN instead of UP. In addition, the pushrods are now SHORTER than they were before, which makes them all loose and rattly-sounding. I know this because it happened to me 2 years ago. You actually lose valve lift and power.
To be specific, if you milled .010" and used a Victor gasket, you lowered your compression from the original 9.0:1 to about 8.1:1 and your pushrods are now (.045"-.020")= .025" shorter than normal. If you used a FelPro gasket, you lowered compression to 7.8:1 and shortened the pushrods by (.055"-.020")= .035". Either way, you lost cam lift, at least .020" or so.
TO FIX THIS - get a thinner head gasket. The best approach is to get a steel FORD gasket from Mustangaroo IF YOU'RE GOOD AND FAST at putting it together, because you MUST USE SEALANT on the steel gaskets or else you'll spring oil and water leaks. The next best choice is to get one of Ford's genuine replacement composite gaskets (I have 2 left for sale) that are a conventional design, but are .007" thicker than the steel ones. The big difference is: these units are for the inexperienced mechanic because they are forgiving and seal better than the steel ones.

The steel ones from Mustangaroo will restore the compression you wanted 100%. So, if you milled, say .020" from the head, you'd get about 9.9:1 or so. With my gaskets you will get about 9.6:1 or so for the same mill amount, but easier installation and better sealing.

If you go with the steel, get 2 cans of the liquid Copper Permatex. As fast as you can, paint the bottom side, place the gasket on the block (use 2 head bolts to hold it in place), then quickly paint the upper side and assemble the head. If you take more than 20 minutes total to do this, it's too long.

One other thing: when you have the head off, look at the sharp ridge along the "flat" side of the combustion chamber. Take some emery cloth and smooth this down - you don't want it sharp or it will induce knock. Also, if you had a valve job done, you'll see the same sharp edge around the rim of the valves, each one. Although it's hard to do, remove the valves and sand down this ridge on every valve, ESPECIALLY the exhaust side (the smaller valves). This ridge can cut your flow down as much as 15%.

One last thing: if you did not replace the lifters, do it when you have the head off. New lifters add up to .015" lift over old ones, plus the milled head will raise the lift by approximately 20% of the mill height at mid-to-high engine speeds (that's like .005" extra for a .020" mill job).

Hope this helps: sorry for the bad news part, though.
 
Get adjustable rockers. Easiest and best solution.

I hear you about "when it rains, it pours". Was all set to take the mustang off the road for the winter, and then my wife's car get's side swipped taking out half the side of the car, so now I'm waiting for my body shop to have an opening (december) and then I have to wait for it to get done, and meanwhile, the KaStang is still on the road. Oh well.

Slade
 
Mark, wow...that is best explaination I ever heard. I actulaly understood it.

Thanks!

I am going to run with this for a little while and then change it....after I see whats up with the bmw transmission

Thanks! chaz
 
wait, upon re-reading...did my push rods get shorter because the machince shop shaved them? or is that just because the deck height is higher...

wait, I think I get it...push rods are now too short...they werent shaved...its just the head gasket difference?

BUT WHAT ABOUT DECK MILLING HEIGHT? If they took off .020...wouldnt the thicker gasket compensate for that?

I guess I basically have to either 1) pull it apart and put in a new head gasket myself or 2) take it back and make the guy put in the right head gasket...

arrrggg
 
If you had the deck milled, then the overall height is similar to having the head milled. Milling the deck requires pulling and disassembling the engine, though, because you can't mill it with the pistons in the bores - at least, not accurately, as far as I know.

Also, if you had the block (deck) milled, this solves the head gasket problem, so long as it was milled .020" to .028". Then you can use the Victor gasket and get original CR and quench band heights.

But, if only the head was milled, say .020" or less, then all of my above comments apply.

Now it gets complicated: if you had the deck milled, say .020", and the head milled, say .020", then used a conventional gasket, the CR would come out approximately .6 higher than original (like 9.0:1 would now be 9.6:1), and the pushrods would only be .020" too long - that's OK with hydraulic lifters. BUT, if your well-meaning mechanic also installed the .060" undersize pushrods (or shimmed the rocker shaft towers) after milling the total .040" from both ends, now your pushrods are still .020" too short.

If the pushrods are too short, they will rattle in the end and you'll lose cam lift. If they're too long, the valves will tend to not close and your manifold vacuum will be low and the engine will display low gas mileage, low power, easy overheating, etc. It will also spin very fast with the starter when trying to start it hot.

I still suspect that the head was milled (not enough) and the thicker gasket installed, though, from your description of the symptoms.
 
yeah, I think the head was milled and then the same push rods were installed...probably using the .045 head gasket...meaning my push rods are .020 or so short...thus the rattling...only on one or two luckily...but it is NOISY!

can anyone tell by this photo...it actually LOOKS like the right gasket...
23397515.headgasket.jpg


why didnt he change the lifters and pushrods I ask...why!>?!?!

then we would KNOW its the gasket thickness
 
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