Holley 5200 vs. 32/36 Weber; they aren't the same, are they?

Greetings GoFOrdBroke:

I've thought some about your carb problems. I have a couple of systems related questions that do not pertain directly to the carb. What year is your distributor - is it by chance a LOM? Have you tried running the car without the vacuum advance?

I have been running without the vac advance and today I finally hooked it up - car ran rough with the vac advance. I dialed back the timing but that did not change things much. I thought that both of the vac ports on my carb were plugged. Much to my surprise when I went to remove the plug on one of the ports I found it to be open. I have been running for two years with a vacuum leak - now I have to tweak my jetting to compensate.
 
Hey, man. I have always suspected vacuum related issues - if for no other reason than that it just FELT like a vacuum leak: erratic idle, light throttle surge, stumble on instant full throttle... I found an interesting vacuum leak at the pcv valve fitting.
I am pleased to report that the Fairmont is on the road again. I have rejetted and redistributored (recurve w/spring and tab bending) and I am beginning to finally get some of the storied benefits of the Weber. But not all; I believe I have it timed all wrong and that much is to be gained from further investigation, but events have conspired against pleasurable enterprises for the moment.
We are in chemotherapy at M.D. Anderson in Houston; Interferon and other nasty shit and her hair is going to fall out. Life is funny.. not in an amusing way, in a queer way. Never mind.
I have 85 primary & 75 secondary, 110, I believe, air, and I don't remember what mains. It really runs pretty well, but my mileage isn't there; I believe I am over-throttling the engine to compensate for slow timing. Maybe over-jetted, too. At least that's my SWAG. And my vacuum advance is so confusing..! It seems to have a mind of it's own. It increases my idle unless I keep my idle VERY low; anything more creates suficient vacuum to move the arm. There are so damn many variables in this equation it is frustrating.
Oh, in order: 1978; LOM; no. Why? Thanks for your interest, A.
 
I was totally wrong about air correction jetting.. cranial flatulence. 180 primary, don't remember secondary... What have you had to do as a result of your vacuum leak discovery?
 
The plug or vac tube was missing on the carb. My Falcon ran ***good*** but it leaned out at higher RPM. I installed the missing vac tube and hooked the distributor vac line to it - car ran like crap, including detonation at cruise on the freeway. I plugged the carb vac port and installed a vac tube in the manifold (to feed the distributor). Still ran like crap and had several huge backfire events when lifting off the throttle after sustained high speed cruise. Deleted the vac advance to the distributor. Everything is good again. It appears that my distributor was getting ***way*** too much vac advance but I never did put a timing light on it. My PCV system quit working at the same time that I installed the Weber - could not figure out why there was no vacuum - now that the port is plugged the PCV system is working once again. But in two years of driving it sure fowled the engine compartment with the PCV not drawing out fumes - amazing where all an engine will leak when the fumes / pressure is not drawn out.

I would suggest that you dial things in with the vac advance disconnected and plugged. One less variable for now. Reading the sticky on manifold vs port vacuum, Iamconvinced that I am leaving 1+ mpg onthe table without the vac advance but I do not have time to deal with it now. I took the car out for the last time this year last night to a car wash to wash down the engine compartment and an overall wash (was about 28 deg F at the time). Today it snowed and the roads were salted - Falcon is officially off of the road for the season.
 
:) Hi GoFordBroke.Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery for your stepdaughter.
God bless.
Good luck sorting out your car.
Leo
 
Hi guys, and thank you so much for the encouragement. My stepdaughter is undergoing a new therapy, the results of which we won't get an assessment until Tues. Keep up the prayers..
Since my last entry I have recurved the dist with the spring kit ( anybody need a lightweight spring?), rejetted (again), and fooled with the timing. I am pleased to report that the new combination is very rsponsive and smooth - up to a point. The only hitch left is full throttle from a standing start; instant fall over bog. A quick roll-on works great and I would estimate 500-600 rpm increase as a result of the carb being jetted more appropriately. Currently I am at 85 primary idle, 200 air/corrector, 70 secondary idle, and 160 main jets. I am going to try one step richer on primary and one step leaner on the main because I'm not getting but about 19mpg (I was getting about 21 before.) On the other hand, I'm averaging three second 0-60 time improvement, at least! Pretty damned cool, is all I know. For the record again, it's a '78 Fairmont, 200ci - no overbore, stock cam and valvetrain (that's next), Clifford headers (w/ port separator, if it makes any difference), ported and polished log head with .070 cut and three angle valve job, new valves w/ H.O.302 springs and one-piece retainers, homemade direct-mount 32/36 Weber, E-3 sparkplugs and 2" exhaust w/single flowmaster and resonator tip. C-4 (shift kit is next and BADLY needed), open 7.5 (I have a turbo coupe 4-lug, 3.23 ratio 8.8 w/disc brakes and posi ready to install with new BBK lower control arms and Southside adjustable Heim joint uppers.) I have custom subframe connectors, front and rear strut tower braces, front coil-overs, front and rear sway bars, gas shocks and all polyurethane wherever I still have bushings. This thing corners like it is on rails! It even has a great ride!
What do you think is the source of the bog at full throttle, guys? Thanks for all your help and support, you're the greatest
 
I can't help with the carb as you are farther along than I in that department.
How about some pics of the throttle cable setup.
When I tried to fit mine I couldn't get things to line up well.
 
The only hitch left is full throttle from a standing start; instant fall over bog.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to work on the accelerator pump circuit a little. Could be one of several things such as pump shot is too soon or not soon enough, and or the pump jet is to rich or not rich enough :hmmm:
 
Bubba - when you say "accelerator pump jet" are you referring to the squirt nozzle?

Jackfish - I'll try to post some pictures soon. The specific placement and orientation were critical for my installation. I have my carb with float bowl to the right; most kits have the carb facing the other way. I still don't have kickdown linkage made (or figured out, for that matter), but it seems to downshift pretty well just from the vacuum element of the kickdown circuit. On the highway, it is reluctant to downshift at higher rpm's for passing but the smooth torque generally pulls through the light bog. I could definitely afford to put some time into kickdown linkage, though.

Thanks, guys
 
You know, Bubba, the biggest double squirter I've got is a 60; I reckon I would have to drill the existing orifices. That is a mighty little hole... Where do you find drill bits this small? (I am sure it fits in a pin vise, yes?) Also, I have a single squirter (primary only) and another double of the same size (60). What has been your experience as far as ultimate sizing - I will creep up on it, obviously -but where did you land?
How do you change the duration of the shot? Or is it the volume or timing you're changing?
 
Where do you find drill bits this small?
Click to expand...
Look for number drills (sets are usally 1 to 60) you will probally only use the smallest 1 to maybe to 15 or so would have to look at mine in the shop will have to get back to you on that.
What has been your experience as far as ultimate sizing - I will creep up on it, obviously -but where did you land?
Click to expand...
This is by the combo of parts your using so your right about creepping up on it one size at a time.

How do you change the duration of the shot? Or is it the volume or timing you're changing?
Click to expand...
can be both or just one or the other I start first by changing the accelerator timing faster (depending on carb style) if it can be adjusted also by bending or moding the arm to make it react with a quicker shot than move to the duration longer shot mod the cam lift or were it pushes on the accelerator diaphragm he the etc. last bigger accel. jet also to increase volume of shot. Many times you only need it to have one setting changed to bring the shot a little sooner. Also if yours is setup with the progresive secondary linkage than the single shot jet may work better i.e. just in the primary Good luck :thumbup:
 
Bubba, the single shot squirter makes total sense; so many times what feels like a lean stumble is, instead, a rich one. And vice versa... I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the problem isn't the shot of fuel on the just (barely) opening secondary. It would be pouring fuel on before there is fire to burn it. Yep, makes sense; we'll see tomorrow. It is colder than the brass monkeys could stand here, but it is sunny, and if you can get out of the wind it's workable. It doesn't take long anyway. Thanks.
 
Also, I will need to stare at the carb for awhile tomorrow and figure out what you're talking about; I can not see a way to accomplish what you talk about. Is there unused stroke on the pump diaphragm shaft? If so, how do you access it? How would one know how much additional throw (stroke) was available?
 
Pump jet: I started with a 55/55 and slowly drilled up in size (primarily on the primary side). Using a number 73 drill got me to 61, #72 to 64/55, then #71 & #73 for 66/61, #67 & #70 for 80/71 and finally #65 for 89/71. These small drills typically run about $0.40 to 0.75 each. An import set of number drills from 61 to 80 (they get smaller as the number increases) is about $20. Sometimes I buy metric drills but a lot of the time I will use a number drill that is close. These kind of specialty items are typically available at a "tool supply" store (where machine shops and similar buy supplies). I don't know if you live near Houston or are there only for your step daughter's treatment, Wholesale Tool of Texas is on Pinemont near Hempstead Hwy (I see US290 is now known as the Northwest freeway) quite a ways from MD Anderson . I used to buy stuff there back in the early '80s now I occasionaly shop at the Warren, MI store. I tried to surf their web page for a link the the drill bit set but their web search sucks.

THis winter I intend to increase the pump shot by modifying the cam that actuates the accell pump lever.
 
so many times what feels like a lean stumble is, instead, a rich one. And vice versa... I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the problem isn't the shot of fuel on the just (barely) opening secondary.
Click to expand...

Right also maybe the secondary is opening a bit too fast. Stay warm :nod:
 
Well, nothing to report.. too damned cold! Maybe tomorrow... The last two days have not seen highs out of the upper thirties with 15-30mph winds! Yes, folks, this is Florida..jeez!
 
We had a couple nice warm days today it's getting a little colder too still not bad. I hear yeah don't care to work out in the cold much :hmmm: My cousin lives in so. Florida set me some pictures of snow they had last year crazy. Must be all that global warming :rolflmao:
 
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