How about a Turbine engine?

[Anonymous]

I heard they make a lot of power, run very high RPMs but are effient with fuel. I have seen pulling tractors with them. Any jet mechanics out there know about these. What can you tell me about them?

 

[63redtudor]

Used to work on helicopter engines for the army, still do on occasion. Most of my experiance was with the chinook, though I've done a bit with the huey & the blackhawk. Turbines do run at very high RPMs with high horses, not much toque (as compared to a recipricating engine). The T55 engine output shaft nomaly turns at 16,000rpm. Some of the smaller motors turn at speeds of over 100,000prm. With this high speed they are very smooth, takes special vibe equipment to read any vibration. I remember watching a huey engine run on a stand at max power (104%) & the only reason you could tell it was running is the noise. They run best at just under max power at a constant rpm. Idle & starting are the most stressfull for a turbine. There are turbines in the Alaskan & Texas (suppose others as well?) that have been running continiously for years. They've got a process to change the oil on the run. Think a turbine like a diesel, they run off of compression. As a result they can burn just about any liquid or gasious fuel. They're not nessesarily more fuel effient (yet), but they do have a better power-to-weight ratio. The T55 is about 2' round by about 4' long (bare engine) & the 712 model pumps out 3,750 shaft horsepower & 4,500 emergency. The new 714 pumps out about 500 more than that. Try that with a V8! Turbines are why we have synthetic oil as normal mineral oil breaks down before they've reached operating tempature. In the '60s chrysler experimanted with a turbine powered car, even had a pre-production run of one vehicle. Search the net, there's actually a lot of info on it, even the original owners manual. A movie was also made about the cars, but I can't remember the name. Hope this helps, though I'll have to dig out my lituature again & I'm not all that sure where it is. Its been a while. Take care,
Edwin

 

[Thad]

Chrysler, Rover at Le Mans no less, Lotus at Indy and others have tried turbine driven prototypes. The lack of torque, the time needed to spool up, heat and by design characteristics a steady state engine, they are not feasable in a car. Indy was no problem, once up and running, it operated at an almost steady state. Tried in long haul trucks but the lack of torque kill that.
The "coupling" between a turbine and transmission is baically one set of fans blowing another set of fans, no hard connection.
In the mid '80s Garlet's shop had a touring exhibition dragster with a helo turbine, very slow 60' times, could beat it off the line on foot, but way fast on the far end. At Lake Charles saw Garlet's turbine take on a jet dragster. The jet with afterburner got a hole shot, but the turbine with it's lower weight would catch him before the lights.

 

[Lazy JW]

Or a Pratt & Whitney PT-6 turbine set up to produce about 450 hp. Great power to weight ratio. And for about $200,000.00, you too can own one
Lazy JW

 

[StrangeRanger]

A movie was also made about the cars, but I can't remember the name.

The Lively Set staring James darren and Pamela Tiffin, made in 1964. The movie has nothing much to offer other than brief views of the turbine car and the very watchable Ms. Tiffin.

 

[Anonymous]

SR, every time there is an old movie reference, I notice you piping up. Are you a buff? Most of the movies you talk about i've never heard of, though that isn't really much of a surprise...

For something a bit more on-topic, i'm sure some of you have seem similar before:
http://www.bikemenu.com/turbine.html


-=Whittey=-

 

[StrangeRanger]

A bit of a movie buff, at least the older ones. I don't go to the cinema that ften anymore, but I catch the oldies on TV. That particular woofer, and trust me it WAS a real dog, was featured last year on Speed Channel's Lost Drive-In. It deserved to remain lost.

 

[Anlushac11]

8)

I had a chance to speak to Andy Granetelli about the turbine Vette they built. The car had a IIRC roughly 1000hp and 975 ft lb torque gas turbine. Only way to tell it wa running was hte shimmer of hot air off the back of the black exhaust slot that ran length of back of car. Engine was supposed to weigh about 375lbs.

Idled at 75mph so they had to put NASCAR 4 piston racing rotors and calipers. I dont remember what top speed was. It apparently passed everything but a gas station.

And in the kitplane market someone was selling a gas turbine refurbshed from a remote generator IIRC used at oil pump stations. The gas turbine put out 95hp and weighed 75lbs. I dint remember the torque.

 

[fastback69]

Turbo-shafts and turbo-props use gear reduction to get torque out of a turbine engine. The T56 (C-130) spins at a little more than 13k, has a 12:1 gear reduction (IIRC), and puts out 19,200 in/lbs of torque. The torque is limited by the strength of the gearbox. The engines are rated at 3000-something hp.

 

[Thad]

SR,
Got any idea what the lovely Ms. Tiffin would look like today? :roll:

Oh well, all things pass.

Wasn't Andy's Vette turbine one of the units for the Indy car when there nothing to do with it after it was outlawed

 

[StrangeRanger]

She hasn't made a film in almost 30 years. We'll never know. It's probably better that way.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a fair supply of small turbines available in the government surplus system.
The ones that are in Army 200KW Generators have caught my interest. I don't know exactly how much power they have but I'm sure it will push a little 14 foot hydroplane around.

John

 

[SuperMag]

With ease. 200kw translates to 268hp. And that's just the output of the generator... Hmmmm

 

[63redtudor]

Here's one of the links for the chrysler turbine car:
http://www.turbinecar.com/turbine.htm
Take care,
Edwin

 

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

My friend has a Ford 8N tractor powered by a surplus stationary powerplant jet turbine. It drives a gearbox from a B-52 aileron control to a chain drive reduction into a hydrostatic drive unit - all hidden inside that 8N.

Absolutely beautiful.

He also has 8N's powered by SBF, SBC, and Mopar V8's. Each one is museum quality and looks like it came from the factory that way.

 

[fastback69]

Ford built a turbine-electric semi back in the 50's or 60's. I think a turbine-electric train was built, too. Modern U.S frigates and destroyers are powered by F100 turbo-shafts, but only for emergency conditions where speed is critical. They drink fuel faster than a recip diesel.

 

[Anonymous]

I never knew I'd get so many responses to one question. This is more exciting than the Weird Al Yankovic CD I just bought and the first beer (only one, I'm a lightweight) I've had in a month, just an hour ago. So even a small used or refurbished turbine won't be cheap and would be complicated to put into an 80s F150 and couldn't squeel the tires at a stoplight. If there was a highway on the way to my next pizza delivery, I just might get it there a little faster If I can get the truck to stop. But just imagine the people looking into the engine bay at Taco Bell. The Guys in a green Chevy with 38" tires and half a yard of lift would just look at it with their mouths open, drop their Chalupas and not say anything. And the week before they boasted about how hard it was to swap a 454 in where a 350 was.

 

[Anonymous]

There was a streamlined train locomotive made that was turbine powered. It was a streamlined version for passenger trains. I think there was 4 units in the engine lashup. I'm not sure if they were mass produced. I did see in an issue of Model Railroader magazine, some guy in Japan made a fully operating model of that engine and it WAS turbine powered, made in "O" scale (1 to 48 ratio). A dad of a friend of mine worked for one of the bus companies in the 60s or 70s. He had a great record and drove a prototype turbine powered bus for at least a month or two. I think he was in a diesel bus driving one day (in Wisconsin) and had to swerve to miss hitting a car that pulled out in front of him. The bus filled with passengers, went through the ditch upright, between some trees, onto a guys yard and stops with the front just one foot from the houses porch windows.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmmnn. The Pennsylvania Railroad had a Steam Turbine locomotive. It was based on the then current style of locomotive--------A Black,big boilered engine with a 6--8--6 wheel arrangement,complete with a tender,so,to the man in the street,it looked just like an ordinary steamer. In the late 50' the Union Pacifc (UP) had a more radical looking locomotive. It looked more like a late 40'/early 50's EMD (GM) cab unit. This locomotive had it's own tender,which was actually 2 15,000 gallon tenders welded back--to--back to carry 30,000 gallons of water to feed the turbine on their long journeys accross the desert. The Union Pacifc called 'em "Big--Blow's." Ahhhh. the '50's,the true begining of the "Horsepower race." OO6.

 

[Anonymous]

Boyd, adding a turbine to a car is a very do-able project. I actually have three turbine engines (a 1954 Boeing ~30 hp APU, a Solar ~40 hp APU, and a Airesearch 180 hp GPU). Mine are all single shaft engines, which complicates adding them to a car, but if you find a twin shaft engine (like a PT-6), it would be a piece of cake. Kind of a fun idea, eh?