How many log styles?

[AzCoupe]

Anyone know how many different style logs there are on the various years? I'm working on some billet adapters that will bolt on without milling, so I'll need to make one for each application. If I'm correct, I think there are three??? I'm going to run around to the various bone yards on Saturday to see what I can find, and it would be helpful to know what I'm looking for.

 

[WhitePony]

I know that there were two different styles of the later 'Big Log' head, one being flat and the other having a sorta octaginal shape. The earlier heads had a range of valve sizes according to year, but not sure if there was a difference in the casting size of the log, although I seem to remember the very early heads having a smaller log. So, four maybe? Probably a question for David Schjeldahl.


By the way, billet adapters? For triple carb setups or two bbl conversions? It would be nice to have another option for two bbl adapters considering the design issues of the Stovebolt adapter, and the availability problems in dealing with Clifford.

Kris

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

What a good question. We've thought about a survey of carb flanges and of the adapters, between the head and the carb, for various heads and various applications- but we haven't done it.

Is your adapter to mount ? carb to the adapter? or to mount ? carb directly to the carb flange, without the adapter? Mounting it directly to the carb flange may be a help where hood clearance is an issue?

Adios, David

 

[powerband]

I discovered today that the Offy 3X1 adapter I bought for the DODE-6090-A head from a '71 170 Maverick will not fit the D7XX head I am removing from a D7XX 250 Mustang block. The original carb hole on the '71 DOXX head is higher on the log by about a 1/4 inch and the Offy adapter won't mate with the D7XX log because of it. The logs are very similar in size.

I had wanteed to use the larger valve, hardened seat D7 head for my Offfy conversion but I guess I'll save that for a 2bbl adapter setup or direct mount.

PS The 250 has a steel gasket # 6051B2A.
> Anybody ever try re-using one?.

Powerband

 

[AzCoupe]

Lets start at the begining. Last week I found a local shop that offered to produce any billet part I can dream up. Including (but not limited to) carb adapters, water pump pulleys, timing chain covers, big block side plates, air cleaner tops, etc. The list could go on and on, and even include custom wheels if I desire, as they have that capability.

My first thought was carb adapters because of all the recent topics on them. My thought is to produce a two barel adapter that mounts to the log without milling, or reducing the intake to a 1V. Which means I need to do one for each style of log for proper fitment and seal. Of all the adapters I've seen, none approach it in the mannor I'm thinking of, or are 100% correct for any given application. Does that make any sense?

Instead of buying one of each, I plan to take modeling clay and make a pattern of the log, just over the carb location. Then I will make plaster molds of the various logs, from the clay patterns. Once thats done, I'll have lots of cheap and workable molds to play with, and will see what I can come up with. Then its a simple procedure to make a cad drawing of the piece and have them machined.

Could it really be that easy.

 

[wsa111]

Mike, I really don't think it is that easy.

First you have to mill off the one barrel carb flange cast on the log.
Second the cut has to be parellel to the carb flange to maintain the proper fore & aft carb angle, on mine I had the machine shop angle mill the adapter to regain close to the correct carb angle.
The reason being I wanted to maintain the same thickness on either end of the log for proper thread depth to mount the adapter.
Thirdly the top of the log had to be filled in by brazing the low spots in the log for proper gasket sealing surface between the log & the adapter.

My personal opinon, don't waste your time, unless you want to make a 1" thick adapter taper milled for proper carb angle & throttle holes to accept a 4412-500 CFM holley.

I think your efforts would be better spent finishing the valve cover & the aluminium cylinder head.

If someone has a machine shop to handle a modified log let them deal with it themselves, to be frank the effort was worth it but the average guy or machine shop will be lost.

Just my opinion, if I had to do it again i would have bought an OZ head or an argie head & would have gained 35 HP for the same cost. William

 

[AzCoupe]

I think your efforts would be better spent finishing the valve cover & the aluminium cylinder head.

Very little of MY TIME is required to see both of these project thru to the end (which will happen), they only require MY MONEY.

I don't think the adapters need to be that complicated, thus the reason I want to try my approach. I may be wrong, but I might be correct. Anyway, its worth spending a weekend or two to see.

 

[WhitePony]

My thought is to produce a two barel adapter that mounts to the log without milling, or reducing the intake to a 1V

The part about not reducing the intake to a 1V is what's throwing me. So, what you are looking for is an adapter that will mount on the log after you increase the intake hole size to match the adapter? If so, I'd almost think that milling it for a direct mount plate would be easier.

 

[wsa111]

Mike, I think you are biting off more that you can chew.

Reason being the head logs vary so much from the beginning to into the 80's.

Personal comment you are wasteing your time.

If you can make it happen go for it, I think you are trying to overcome a monster because of the many different designs in log manifolds.

I wish you luck, if you can make it happen, fantastic.

 

[AzCoupe]

Mike, I think you are biting off more that you can chew.

Personal comment, you are wasteing your time.

That's what they said to the Wright brothers, Thomas Edison, Ben Franklin, and many others.

It is also what I was told when I began looking four years ago, for the elusive dual roller chains. Took a year of my time (searching), but I did eventualy succeed. And I think many of us have heard the same from V8er's, when we talk about building up our sixes.

You may be right, but I won't know till I try. I'll only be sorry if I don't give it a shot. Besides, a learning experience is never a waste of time in my opinion. Even if I don't succeed.

So, what you are looking for is an adapter that will mount on the log after you increase the intake hole size to match the adapter? If so, I'd almost think that milling it for a direct mount plate would be easier.

The idea is two fold. First is to produce a direct mount plate, without the need of milling. Only enlarging the hole. I have no idea if this is possible, but I'm going to give it a shot. Second, is to produce an adapter similar to those already available (without opening up the hole) to resolve the issues mentioned:

It would be nice to have another option for two bbl adapters considering the design issues of the Stovebolt adapter, and the availability problems in dealing with Clifford.

 

[JackFish]

The idea is two fold. First is to produce a direct mount plate, without the need of milling. Only enlarging the hole. I have no idea if this is possible, but I'm going to give it a shot. Second, is to produce an adapter similar to those already available (without opening up the hole) to resolve the issues mentioned:

It's exactly what is needed. And is more important to me than a valve cover.
A valve cover doesn't make my car go any faster or give it better mpg and I won't be buying one. But short of having an adapter custom made, at this point I have no way to mount this great 5200 I found.

If you can do this it will be easier for far more people to put high performance cams/etc. into their engines, which is what you sell right?

 

[WhitePony]

That's what they said to the Wright brothers, Thomas Edison, Ben Franklin, and many others.

I've told Wilbur, and I've told Orville, and now I'm telling you. That thing will NEVER fly!

I hope that you can figure it out Mike. enlarging the hole is something that I'd attempt myself, but I'd NEVER be able to mill the flange off.

Kris

 

[Anonymous]

Mike,

There are 2 different carb bolt patterns that are 2 3/4" for the early heads and 3 5/8 for the later heads as far as the bolt on 2 into 1 carb adapters

Then there are 4 different heads that are the best to be modified for a direct mount carb.

The part numbers are C9DE-6090-M, D8BE-6090-BA, EOBE-6090-BB E1BE-6090-CC

Hopefully this is what you were looking for!

Later,

Doug

 

[AzCoupe]

Thanks Doug, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

 

[Anonymous]

I say go for it! This is exactly what I am trying to cobble up myself. Kind of a cross between a direct mount and a funnel adapter. I opened up the hole in the head to an egg shape that is 2 5/16 wide. I made a baseplate from 3/8 aluminum that is the same shape as the holley 2300 series. It bolts to the two original carb mounting holes. I will make another plate to finish tapering to the throttle plates. What a lot of people don't understand is that the airflow through the carb is determined by the venturis, not the throttle blades. I think my egg shaped hole will flow as much air as the holley 350 I plan to use.

 

[73GreenMachine]

On an Aussie log I managed to modify a Weber DGV Redline adapter to do what you said. I'm using the stock bolt pattern without milling the head. I bored the intake of the log out to 2 inches and smoothed the transition out with a die grinder and did the same to the adaptor. The area of the 2 inch hole and the smoothing should flow as much air as the carby can provide. I'm guessing that this is the kind of thing you want to produce. It took quite a few grinding stones and a heap of metal fragments to do it and it would have been great to but this part off the shelf. I think there would be a good market for the adaptor as it seems to be 90 percent of the way to a direct mount with only 10 percent of the work, so good luck.

 

[ski4evr]

I recall someone elongating the 1.75 inch carb opening (or was it the 1.5 inch - don't recall which year log he was using) to direct mount a weber 32/36. The stock log bolt spacing only had enough room to fit the weber 32/36 mounted at an angle. There was a picture in the post. I did some searches and could not find it. The spacing was so tight that the bolts holding the home made adapter plate to the log looked like they would hit the throttle plates of the carb. But they didn't based on the way that particular carbs throttle plates rotated.

scott

 

[wsa111]

Mike, I may have been thinking you were trying to make a plate to bolt to a milled log or are you just going to make a billet plate which will bolt on the existing single barrel mounting flange ?

You are right that would be very easy to make & would also be a great item for you to market, plus if it can be fastened internally the adapter height could be 25% less than the present adapters out there.

Don't you think a casting would be a lot cheaper because it would save a lot of machine work.

Keep us informed.

 

[AzCoupe]

The above ideas are very close to what I'm going to try. Although instead of trying to modify an existing bracket, I will start from scratch so I can make it just the way I want. It's hard to explain, but I have it all in my mind. Cluttered placed.

Don't know for sure if it will be a billet piece, or if I'll have castings made. Having the patterns and match plate produced is pretty exspensive, so billet might wind up being the way to go. Just have to wait and see. Once (if) I come up with the right design, I'll have it quoted both ways.

 

[xctasy]

On an Aussie log I managed to modify a Weber DGV Redline adapter to do what you said. I'm using the stock bolt pattern without milling the head. I bored the intake of the log out to 2 inches and smoothed the transition out with a die grinder and did the same to the adaptor. The area of the 2 inch hole and the smoothing should flow as much air as the carby can provide. I'm guessing that this is the kind of thing you want to produce. It took quite a few grinding stones and a heap of metal fragments to do it and it would have been great to but this part off the shelf. I think there would be a good market for the adaptor as it seems to be 90 percent of the way to a direct mount with only 10 percent of the work, so good luck.

73GreenMachine, what's your casting number?

See http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21001

They missed out on the 1.75" intake log head, so are quite restrictive. As has been said, the tall deck 200/250 engines are just cousins with the US 250, not brothers. These had casting numbers 72BA 6049 and a revison code

The first Aussie 250 came in in the 1971 XY Falcon, but I don't have a part number, only date codes care of Raoth from Auckland.I got the end codes of making for his 250 engines, which were 10 E1 and 13 C1

I now know this is wrong, it was indeed 1.75", as the 1972 onwards 250 and 200 got very big 1-bbl Bendix Stromberg BXOV carb which was way bigger than my 66 200 carb (1.3" hole on a early 170 C1UE 6049-A head)

Az Coupe posted a flat top log from Argentina or Brazil a while back. My journeys into the wreckers yards show that from 1972 on wards, the log heads were cast with a 72 prefix. Is yours?