How much $ for a complete X-flow engine?

A

Anonymous

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A 'carbed version?
Someone here offered to help me with sourcing an engine but I don't remember who. I've had to register on here like three times. Seems like everytime I make it back here, the board has moved. :D

Also, is it better to have one rebuilt in Au. or here in the U.S. How long will the boat ride over to Ca. take?
What about motor mounts and what trannys bolt up to it.

My 200 is just about dead so now's as good a time as any to start making plans.
 
IN US DOLLARS:

It would cost about $75 for a virgin rebuildable engine with manual bellhousing. $100, tops. Add $75 for a rebuildable C4, if that's your deal.

Add for parts that aren't interchangeable with the US: Gasket sets, timing set, bearings, fuel pump kit: $250 is safe.

To make and load a crate, guess at $120. To ship to Los Angeles by boat, around $120 again. Clearance fees at the destination are another cost - maybe $75. It would take up to two weeks on the water, plus time to assemble everything here.

So, for a rebuilder plus a bag of parts, it's already $640 or so.

As a performer, it will dump on most log 250s, and pretty much every 200 (maybe two or three excepted). You might luck into one that needs a ring job only for a few years life. Add a few more dollars for a header and custom manifold, and it's a fair grunter!

Your best bet is to talk to Aussie Coupes (Seattle) or Ausheads (Oregon), about buying a core already imported. Should come out cheaper. The specific rebuild parts can then be either bought through them, or off a business like "Rare Spares" in Sydney.

Due to my workload, I can't assist with physicalities, but no secrets here - what I know, is to be shared freely. In other words, I am happy to say what's good, what's bad, where to look, who to call, if you get stuck. Sometimes replies can take a while - work again...

For a true high performance rebuild, I would advocate Australia. We have a history of building quick sixes. For a sensible, quality rebuild, either country is fine.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks a lot.

Where are those two guys you mentioned, in the 200 forum?
I know all about being busy. In two years of following this sixer board I've made all of 20 or so posts. :oops:

I don't need a tranny, so there's some savings. At least I hope I don't.
I have a couple C4s and the three spd from my 200, but are the bellhousings the same or... :unsure::

If it fits, then for the time being I'd just use the same 3 spd behind the 200. Until it lets go anyway.
 
Ford Australia changed the bellhousing bolt spacing of all six cylinder engines, that's the bad news. You cant just bolt up any US tranny, but for manuals, there shouldn't be much difference at the input shaft/gearbox interface. What you can get is the cross flow engines with manual bells which fit:-

1.the Borg Warner three-speed ( like Plymouth Vailants used),

2.The Borg Warner SR 4 ( which we called the single rail over here).

3.The BW T5 ( rather rare and expensive )

4.The Toploader 4-speed (Very rare! Only available on pre 1973 pre XB non-cross flows, and you have to swap them over to fit a cross flow). I think Jack used this type of bell on his EFI Cross flow Mustang.

5. The Australian C4 was an option on these engines, but mostly they had Borg Warner(BW) 35 3-speed autos, which are Vovo 144/164/244/264 types. Very closely related to the BW 55 and 65's found in 6 cylinder BMW's and Jags before 1985. This was a very small, light and efficient transmission, but set up of the kickdown cable is critical to the long life of this box. A C4 is much stronger, and American made, not a locally built box.

For you own advice, I'll tell you want you don't need.

You don't want a cast iron headed 1976 4.1 with a BW 35. (Power rating was 123 hp net). That engine was 51 ponds heavier than the Alloy head. It only had a Bendix one barrel carb...the Weber ADM 2 barrel never arrived until mid 1982, two years after the Honda cast alloy head arrived.

You don't want a post 1982 XE engine as it won't have a C4 automatic. (These were rated at 140 hp net for the first year, and then derated to 131 hp the next, even though it was the same engine!). The later post 1985 XF engines had there Weber ADM linked to an electronic module, and are difficult to set up if thats not included. They also have detonation prone combustion chambers, and thats not what you want when these engine run 9.35 to 9.65: 1 comprssion ratios. Leaded fuel was 97 RON in Australia, which is about equal to your 93 RON/MON rating Premium. The leaded fuel version were rated at 131 hp. These pass US 1973 emissions

Post 1986 XF engines were unleaded, and had lower compression to run a fuel equal to your regular 87 RON/MON fuel (Our 91 RON). Problem is , all post 1986 unleaded engines had either BW 35 variants of the automatic, or the rare BW T5 or BW single rail (SR4 ). These engines lost 2/3 rds of a horsepower under unleaded fuel. They pass US 1975 emissions with a 2 way catalyst.

My suggestion is to look for a C4 equiped 1980 to 1982 XD Falcon Alloy Head 4.1 or TF Cortina Alloy Head 4.1, and specify that it must have a C4. Altough that engine came with a 1 barrel Bendix, you can replace it with a 1982-85 XE Weber ADM 34/34 carb, manifold, air cleaner and rekitted fuel pump with a return line. That will bolt right on, and will give you excellent economy and performance. The only issue is making the kickdown lever work with this carb. Because of this, I'd consider using a #2300 350 Holley on a Holley/Weber #2305 or 5200 series apator. It's hard to beat the ADM manifold. It flows well and is vastly better than any earlier manifold.

Hope this helps you locate the right engine. Hate to overload you with facts, but info is power!
 
XECUTEs advice is fairly spot on, but I'll add on top of what he said;

I've noticed that the Borg-Warner 35 autos were discontinued after 1983 or so. IE I've Never Seen an XE or an XF with a factory install Model 35. My EFI XE came with a Model 40 trans, I believe they were further uprated to the Model 55 with the EA Falcon (series 1). C4s were discontinued after the Alloy Head introduction on the XD Falcon, in favour of the cheaper, domestically produced BWs. Stay Away from the Borg-Warners, they like to leave you stranded.

IIRC the XF head was Designed to run lean with lots of tumble, in order to meet fuel consumption targets. Personally, I feel its a superior head to the earlier EFI and carbed versions, due to this fact. I believe its prone to detonation due to the fact that the factory ran them slightly leaner than their predecessors.

Didnt the Cortina 250-2V come with a toploader as standard fitment? Or am I tripping here, and it really bore a Borg-Warner 503 stamp on the side?? I couldve sworn that I read somewhere that it was a Toploader. I know standard automatic transmissions were the C4 units...
 
Bang-on disco' ! I'd be nice if we could convince Tom to be brave, and wack in an EFI 4.1 like yours , or even a 4.0 EB OHC or later engine with a T5. 210 Horses and 263 foot pounds of thrust would sort out a heap of Rice-mobiles!

I've been thinking 'bout what you've said, disco. There may be a problem in Tom getting what he wanted from just one request from a breakers yard. But perhaps a carby XF engine with its unleaded engine would be better, so long as the electronics were connected? Perhaps a junked C4 off an XA/XB/XC/ early XD could have its flex plate, starter motor and bellhouseing removed and included withan XF engine? Then Tom could mate it to one of his C4's. Sort of like an old reunion gift!

Those post 1986 XF engines have breathing as good as the early Alloy Head engines, and mixture motion is important with coping with the poor gas grade in the USA. If Tom could run it on his regular gas, he'd be a happy man. Dunno if 131 ponnies of 4.1 would be enough when Dickie Johnston claimed he could get almost 200 net flywheel ponnies out of his SVO development six with extractors, 280 cam, and intake manifold gas flowing in a Jan 1987 Wheels article.
 
well, if mix-and-matching becomes an option, then why not locate a dizzy out of an Alloy Head XD - Leaded petty XF (Bosch dual advance electronic distributor), install it into an OHC block, and use the CFI intake manifold with a Holley-Weber adaptor plate, and run some sort of 2bbl Holley on it?

The thing is then bellhousings and flexies will need to be made up if a C4 is the desired trans...
 
Disco, did you reciece my email of a couple of days ago?
TC cortina sixes with 4 speeds had top loaders, prior to 72 that was the ONLY four speed ford used.
A7M
 
A toploader six bell for cable clutch (Corty) is about AUD$90, with cable bracket and fork. This is the best bell for manual crossflow exports, unless a hydro clutch is desired.

Cheers, Adam.
 
Good information guys!

Come in Tom, we've just prepared a radical post 1986 XF 250 4.1 litre(liter in US speak) engine with Toploader 4 -speed bell-housing for you. You get the bellhousing off a pre 1972 Falcon XA or 1972/73 TC Cortina 6. The non EFI XF comes with a Weber 2-barrel. It runs EGR, but only needs a two-way catalyst to keep it emmisions legal, if you have to deal with that cr*p. You must have the small, simple, electronic controller for the ignition, but it'll run on 87 Octane unleaded, and produce 131 hp and 225 lb-ft ot torque! It weighes 474 pounds all up, and passes US 1975 emmisions!

(If you want to work it with a 280 degree cam, gas flowed intake manifold, #2300 Holley 500 CFM (which is really a 355 cfm rated at 1.5 inches of mercury headloss... a 350 cfm is really only 248 cfm) and Pacemaker extractors, you'll get close to 200 hp. And no EFI to exert pain, stress and cost to your American Dream!

Oh, and the Holley bolts on with a RedLine half inch deep Weber ADM/DGAS to Holley #2300 adaptor plate. I've used one on my Falcon. You then cut out a 15 mm thick alloy plate to shift the intake manifold out to clear the Holley. Make sure it runs a return line to the tank, or you'll have to change to an earlier 250 US fuel pump.)

What's not to like about this engine!

Stump pulling Aussie power rules!

Merry Christmas!
 
I have two I6 Mustangs, one will get an injected turbo 250 and the other the engine I'm asking about now. The turbo will have to wait however, seeing as I have never worked with fuel injection and know nothing about it. Also, the car is up on jack stands and stripped

I have my eye on one of the new factory turbo engines but that will have to wait. Maybe five years or so, I don't know. I only work on the car a couple hours a week. Hopefully by the time the car is ready, prices will not be as high.

I want a xflow for my '69 Mustang coup but I want to keep it simple, that's why I'm going for a 'carbed version. Power is not the priority for now. Reliability and gas mileage are. So stocl power will do. I don't have to deal with emissions either, straight pipes all the way. 8)

A Toploader here is not too difficult to find but they're not all that cheap. The lowest price I have ever seen for one is $400 U.S.

And what about motor mounts? When I was going to drop a 300 into another Mustang I had to shell out $100 for custom mounts from Clifford.

Sorry for all the questions, but I need to hammer out every detail for the swap.
 
Any one out there who knows if 4-speedToploaders are the same pattern and input shaft as syncromesh post 1968 3-speeds found on six in line 200 Mustangs?

Two things. T5 bell housings are pretty rare on the XF Falcons they came from in 1986 on. So not easy to find. Input shafts varied on them too.

FYI.Toploaders are one of the most favoured performance boxes in Oz and Kiwi-land. They are getting expensive, and mainshafts are getting hard to find. Sometime third gear seizes on stressed aplications! I suppose the three speed US box is just a cut down four speeder, isn't it? The Oz toploader bellhousing will be the same, accept for the block bell pattern.

Option1: Check with the 144-250 forum, that the post 1968 US 3-speeder is basically the same as the US 4-speed toploader. Then you'll just need a TC Cortina/XA Falcon toploader bell housing!

Option 2: Alternative is to try :-http://www.inlinepages.com/drivetrain/manualswap.html

Option 3: I've build a very simple bolt on plate for my Aussie 250 block to fit the US AOD4 4-speed overdrive. Just a 3/8 inch thick steel plate which uses countersunk bolts to hold it to the original Aussie bolts. Then it has threaded holes for the US box to bolt to. Just use the 163 tooth flexiplate from a 300 I6, and a V8 starter motor. Jack had some info in his 1966 X-flow chronicles! I rushed out and did just as he said!

Lots of joy, Tom, you'll get the answers you need!
 
Tom

Your lucky day maybe, LOL.

I need to put a longblock HO on my engine stand to start refreshing it for a set of alloy SVO GT40x heads AZCoupe sent me, but at the moment theres a nice runner 250 Crossflow on it.

It has a redline manifold with a holley 350 and I guess I could sell it locally but what the heck, you can have the actual engine as per pic for free.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ozrunner/graphics/Demo1.jpg

I also need to clean out some other parts I have so most of what you need I have such as C4, top loader or an aftermarket T5 bell etc.

Email if you're interested and we can work a deal if you require these other parts etc.

Including a special crate shipping will be $US220.
 
I used a toploader bell to mate the T-5 to my Crossflow. It has the same pattern as the 3.03 so I simply used an adapter. simple bolt on.
 
I have about 6 Aussie 250 Crossflows sitting here in Portland, OR. All have had their heads removed to ensure that they are standard bore and in good shape. They all come with intake and headers. Feel free to call me on 503-750-3253 or send a PM with your details and I will call you.

I reckon I will be cheaper than anyone out there... that is the goal anyway.
 
Thanks for all the info guys, it looks like the car will be ready in about three months. I did body work this past weekend and hopefully the paint will go on this Sat. 8)
 
ive got an XF motor comlete at home,victim of a kangaroo across the nullabor, anyway u arrange to get it to the US u can have the thing for free, concerning transmission, i personally run a borgwarner 51 which is fitted to the EA falcons, it was alot cheaper than fitting a C4 and just as strong supposedly, probably all depends on what the main purpose of the car is
 
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