I spoke with John from Pony Carbs this week

[LaGrasta]

I basically told them I have a great running 20 mpg 170ci, Holley 1940 set-up with the sole purpose of mpg over performance/power. Can you you do me any better?
He was skeptical of my mpg claim saying no one gets that much. That's obviously not true because many of you get even better than me. I have every fill-up record for the last 4-5 years. They all range anywhere from 16-24mpg all city or combined driving. If I were to hop on a freeway and drive till the tank is empty, I expect I'd be near 30 as Ford claimed with this car. I know with my 1990 Taurus, I get 20ish combined driving, but on a recent trip to AZ, I got 30. 400 non-stop miles, all freeway.
Anyway, he said for a $400 purchase, he could not only increase my hp, but raise my mpg a minimum of 10%. He said that is an extremely conservative claim.
Using my investment cost calculator, the purchase will pay for itself after 1.9 years with gas saved driving 10k/year (20mpg vs. 22mpg). Anyone have any advice, thoughts, or red-flags?

 

[Ronbo]

Written Guarantee? I've dealt with so many chuckle-heads over the past few years I'm skeptical of any claim by anyone Seriously, would they back that up on paper?

Ron

 

[MustangSix]

Your mileage would probably improve more than that with a better transmission. That old 2-spd is not the most efficient thing in the world. Your block might not work but if you could step up to a C5 with a lockup converter and you should get even more than 10%.

Frankly, it takes a long time to hit payback on most mileage mods. Of course, if fuel prices continue to rise at the same rate, payback comes a lot earlier.

 

[66 Fastback]

Isn't it ironic that "nobody gets that much" mileage, yet whatever mileage you get, outrageous or not, you'll get 10% more with his product. Wouldn't it hold true that nobody gets 22 mpg too?
Doug

 

[Gene Fiore]

I spent several days at Pony Carbs with AZCoupe during the dyno testing with MRaley's Mustang. I was quite impressed with everything I heard and saw while I was there. Now, John can be pretty stubborn at times, but he really seems to know his stuff. And his carbs, with the annular disharge nozzels definately make more power, and I would think better mpg's as well. I think his claim is probably pretty darn close to what you would expect to get. Just my 2 cents.

 

[LaGrasta]

Gene Fiore: That's what prompted me to call in the first place, very impressive.

66 Fastback: That's just what I thought.

Mustang Six: C5 or better yet, T5. I'm certain those would help, albeit the greatest increase of all. I have a C4 sitting in my garage right now so I'm going to do that swap and see where I am.
I suspect the lower first gear will greatly improve mpg. As it is now, it's similar to starting in second gear thus pressing the peddle deep just to start rolling.

 

[66 Fastback]

Gene,
I am not saying that it could not improve the mileage, and ya'lls visit out there sounds impressive. But statements like "nobody gets that much" punch holes in a person's credability. So then you have to ask is the 10% mileage improvement credible or just the salesman talking. I have taken my mileage from the 15's to about 20 mpg average. On the highway I can get 23 to 25 mpg. In his defense, maybe John is thinking of V-8 powered Mustangs & Muscle cars since his customer base is probably composed mainly of people restoring V-8 cars versus our little sixes.
Doug

 

[Gene Fiore]

Gene,
I am not saying that it could not improve the mileage, and ya'lls visit out there sounds impressive. But statements like "nobody gets that much" punch holes in a person's credability. So then you have to ask is the 10% mileage improvement credible or just the salesman talking. I have taken my mileage from the 15's to about 20 mpg average. On the highway I can get 23 to 25 mpg. In his defense, maybe John is thinking of V-8 powered Mustangs & Muscle cars since his customer base is probably composed mainly of people restoring V-8 cars versus our little sixes.
Doug

Yeah, that's why I mentioned that John can be stubborn or maybe a better term would be....close minded to things that he believes in his mind to be true or not true. :roll:

 

[LaGrasta]

After all the back-and-forth about John's claim "nobody gets that kind of fuel economy", I started to wonder if I put words in his mouth.
I went back and listened to the conversation and he did say exactly those word's, "nobody gets that kind of fuel economy".

John should join this forum as many of us, maybe even most can get in the 20s consistently providing we're not "racing" around. I haven't done anything radical to achieve my mpg either. I would be willing to bet anyone with a well tuned and maintained electronic ignition six and a T5 on a tank emptying straight run could achieve low 30s. IIRC, RickWrench has done just this on a recent road trip, and with a wagon to boot! Rick, do IRC?

 

[Anonymous]

i got close to 25mpg in my car.. its an 80 block, poiints, single barrel, c4 3speed, all stock... i drove everyday to work, 6days aweek, cruizes on sundays and only had to fill up once every 2 weeks... i never raced (car wouldnt go over 70)... it was my cruizer.... my wife always complained about a gas smell so she wouldnt go in it much unless windows were open... i took my tank out last week and found my sending unit had a crack in the tube.. they epoxied it, but it was still leaking abit.. i never smelt it (lost sence of smell yrs ago)... i could of got better milage if it was fixed and changed to points,lol.. this time i will

i put a weber 2barrel on it once last year, and i had to fill up 3 days later... took that off and put the single barrel back on

 

[addo]

Only takes a few minutes with Excel to play with fuel prices vs repayment time. For perspective, consider where Australian prices are now - equal to about USD6,30/gallon - I am sure US prices will be there within two years.

That said, I'd be sinking every cent into fully tuneable EFI.

 

[Patrick66]

wow, and everybody in the US is outraged by $4.02. i thought about 3 throttle bodies, but decided against it. carbs 'fit' the car better.

 

[Stubby]

I get 23MPG right now with a 200 in a 63.5 Falcon with a C4 and a 3:20 gear with 14in tires. I only run about 60 to 65 beacuse of the RPMs.

Justin's 65 Mustang was getting about 23 with a 2:83 gear and a T5. He ran in fourth gear most of the time, because of high gearing from the V8 OD. If he didn't feather foot it, you could watch the power valve open with the AFR meter.

I am tempted to send you my carb to test. Mid twenties is fairly easy to get, even with less than optimum gearing.

 

[jamyers]

Isn't it ironic that "nobody gets that much" mileage, yet whatever mileage you get, outrageous or not, you'll get 10% more with his product. Wouldn't it hold true that nobody gets 22 mpg too?
Doug

Yup, although "ironic" isn't the word I was thinking of...

And oh yeah - I get 20+ driving around town.

 

[simon]

For perspective, consider where Australian prices are now - equal to about USD6,30/gallon - I am sure US prices will be there within two years.

consider where west European prices are - at about eight to nine dollars/gallon.

(Yup, I still hold on to the gas-guzzling mustang, although it hasn't run in the last seven years)

I wouldn't waste a single thought about EFI though, as the '65 ford is "just" a recreational vehicle for me. Instead, I truly expect the automobile industry to offer an efficient electric car for everyday use.
Electric motors have an efficiency of about 70-85%, whereas the best four-stroke motor has an efficiency of just 10-15%, and a modern turbo diesel only averages 25% of efficiency.

 

[l3n]

I dunno, I kind of like the EFI plan. My goal is to turn the Falcon into a daily driver - I don't expect to get 35 mpg, but if there was a way to bump her up to the high/mid 20's and still let me drive like a maniac, I'd be all over it.

 

[AzCoupe]

I can only think that there was some confusion somewhere. When we were testing MikeR's Mustang, John told Mike that he thought he would get somewhere in the neighborhood of 28mpg. Hence the comment doesn't fit.......

As for the 10%, he just stating that the new 1100 Vaporizer will get a minimum increase of 10% over the old carb, regardless of the mileage, due to it's annular discharge design. After seeing what it did to Mike's motor, I'd have to say that it is a fairly sound assumption.

However, to put this in writing would be a bit unrealistic. Simply because there are to many other variables (timing, A/F ratio, gear ratios, etc) they have no control over, hence they would inevitably wind up eating carbs through no fault of their own.

 

[rickwrench]

Depending on driving habits and configuration, 30+ is achievable without much of a stretch in a roundbody falcon/I6/T5. The mustang isn't so smooth, but it shouldn't make that much difference.
My 62 Squire wagon get 33 on the highway and around 25-26 in town.
MPG depends on how you drive and how efficiently power gets to the road. A ford-o is going to cost you a lot, vs a T5.
For carbs, the 1946 is a great mpg carb. It was one of the last carbs used on production fords, and was designed to run as cleanly as possible.

Euro gasoline costs the same as USA gasoline... right up until each country's gov't adds four or five bucks worth excise tax to each gallon. USA pays .50-.80 cents a gallon in tax per gallon, depending on where you live.
I feel some of the euros' pain, but instead of complaining about how cheap our gas is, they should be asking their gov'ts why they are paying more in tax per gallon than the actual wholesale price.

Rick(wrench)

 

[addo]

I don't complain about the cost - more the opposite! It's a challenge to use it wisely AND enjoy it while the comparatively low prices last...

FWIW, that Squire gets near-identical mileage to my 99MY wagon. Progress, what's that? :roll:

 

[l3n]

Depending on driving habits and configuration, 30+ is achievable without much of a stretch in a roundbody falcon/I6/T5. The mustang isn't so smooth, but it shouldn't make that much difference.
My 62 Squire wagon get 33 on the highway and around 25-26 in town.
MPG depends on how you drive and how efficiently power gets to the road. A ford-o is going to cost you a lot, vs a T5.
For carbs, the 1946 is a great mpg carb. It was one of the last carbs used on production fords, and was designed to run as cleanly as possible.
Rick(wrench)

It's those "driving habits" that are killing me. But I could do better with my current setup - I know the carb could be tuned a little better, and one of my front drums is warped and rubbing, and I have around 200lbs of tools and parts in the backseat and trunk (no garage, studio apt).

But what kind of driving habits are we talking about here? I'm no worse than most people in LA county, but I'm surely no better either. In the city I have a habit of driving 10 mph over any posted limit, and on the freeway it goes a little higher...

If I have to choose between driving more slowly, or spending more money, my pocket is going to take the hit...at least until we catch up with Addo.

Do you think the 1946 is that much more efficient than the HW 5200? If that one (or the new Pony carb Autolite) ends up being the best thing since sliced bread, I might give it a go.