ignition questions, PLEASE

[jb1rd]

I currently have Accel 8040 8MM wiresI made and installed.
I still have the points and condenser.Point gap is .024.
I have an Accel Hi output 12 v coil installed.
My plugs are Autolite, forgot what number, but all new, gap is .035
New 1100 Pony carb.
I've checked the timing and its okay. Dist. cap and rotor are matched and new.

Is this too much for a stock setup, I mean are the wires or coil, or both overkill?
would I be better off using stock type wires and coil?

The reason I ask is, the last timer I tired to drive it, It would not stay running on idle settings, I mean I have to keep it up to about 1500-2000 rpms just to know I have an engine that will run. I know these things can be cold weather finicky, but, after 15 minutes at these rpms, it was warm enough to run at idle, but It wouldn't.

It is a 1967 200ci, c4, no power anything. Has a new trans, new radiator, new fuel tank, brakes, new carb, new brakes and the list goes on. Except for the running. I did get it running for about 30 miles acouple weeks ago, then when I got home shut it off and then this other stuff has happened ever since. Any help is extremely appreciated.

 

[The Plankster Prankster]

i'm guessing your problem is with how the points are set. you don't set them to a given gap, you have to use a dwell meter to set them.

the larger plug wires won't cause any problems.

the high-output coil will reduce the life of your points, so it would be better to stick to a stock coil.
also, inspect the points for wear, pitting, or other imperfections.

when you wired it all, did you make sure the points are powered through a resistor, not getting full 12v - i once ran them at the full 12v and they were burned out and running like you describe after about 30 miles

 

[fordconvert]

Im thinking the same things.

Check with a dwell meter. Also with the dwell meter connected rev it up and see if the reading jumps around. It should be stable through the rpm range. If it jumps around the distributor is worn and basically the shaft is wobbling around causing the dwell to change. In simple terms the dwell is the charge time for the coil. Its not like the timing where you can tweak it and see what you get. Longer does not mean more voltage, there is a very narrow window of dwell time vs. rpm that works.

I dont think having a super coil is going to hurt anything as long as it has the proper resistor which pretty much makes it the same as a regular coil so all its really doing is looking pretty. The limit of the system is the points. Get a Pertronix or DS2 (with the DS1 cap so you can use your new wires) and then you will be able to take some advantage from your new parts.

The last few years I have found the quality of replacement points and condensers to be crap, even the 'good' brands. I ended up pulling the old ones out of the garbage and running them rather than the new ones till I got some sort of electronic conversion done. 3 years ago I had 7 engines running on points, now I have 4 that are triggering some sort of electronic box and 3 that just got converted. The 4 are running older 'worn out' sets since the new ones were so bad. With the electronic conversion they dont wear as quickly and the dwell time does not matter since the electronics take care of that.

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

CLEAN THE POINTS , if you use a feeler guage to set points , make sure its VERY CLEAN !! , I see it all the time , you reach in your toolbox grab the feeler guage , pick the size , then slide it between your fingers , that dosent clean it , use brake Parts or Electromotive cleaner to not only clean the feeler guage but after you set it also shoot a squirt between the points BEFORE , you try to start , IF not you just contaminated the contacts with OIL , even the tiny amount on your fingers will cause it to glaze the points ( like oil on a frying Pan ) a Dwell meter is best but not as important as Clean Contacts , if they are used , fine sandaper or an emory board will work , 99% of points Ign Problems ARE THE POINTS THEMSELVES , also &You must reset the Initial timing ( or at least check it ) as Points Gap / Dwell changes that Setting !

 

[Lazy JW]

CLEAN THE POINTS!......

Amen to that!
I use one of those little flat diamond coated pocket knife sharpeners to file my points. When I want to be really fastidious I finish them on a little hard-grade Arkansas knife stone. Electrical contact cleaner works great but so does plain old rubbing alcohol and it's cheaper.
Joe

 

[rbohm]

8) try bumping the timing a few degrees and see if that helps. if it does then you have a timing issue, if it doesnt then likely you have a points issue. they may need cleaning or replacing depending on what condition they are in.

 

[jb1rd]

sorry for the long delay in answering, but I had to get off my pc and do some work. Thanks for all the info, you all have pointed out some things I had forgotten, ie, points cleaned, etc. I'll start with a new"stock" coil I have. it is run with the original wiring so I am assuming the Resistance wiring is still thereon the ign switch. The man I got the car from was running the stock 43 y/o coil. Will use my test meter to check the ohms on it.

Thanks all for the info given and it is valuable, I always download and print to my notebook. Never can tell when I'll need it again!

I've got a new Pertronix original, I'll put that in also.

Thanks again for all the info, I really appreciate it.

 

[66 Fastback]

I would check the choke operation if you just replaced the carb. There are several adjustments to make on the choke in order to get it operating properly.
Assuming it is not a choke issue, I would check the timing again.
Does the vacuum cannister or vacuum lines hold vacuum?
When you rev the engine, can you see the timing advance while using the timing light?

It is possible that your timing mark is off if the harmonic balancer has deteriorated and the ring has slipped. That happened on mine. So if you time using a timing light, it may be off. Set the engine to TDC of the comprpession for the #1 cyl. Check to see if the balancer timing mark is at TDC, the rotor is pointing at or near the #1 wire post on the distributor cap and check to see if the piston is at TDC.
Doug

 

[LaGrasta]

I've got a new Pertronix original, I'll put that in also.

You're gonna love it! From the moment you hit the key, you'll be shocked at what a difference.

 

[jamyers]

I forget, but isn't the points gap supposed to be .015 or so? .024 sounds WAY too big...

 

[ludwig]

Don't worry. Put the Pertronix in, fire it up and take your time reading about conventional points ignition. Especially the part where it is never as good as it was the first moment you set it and then it deteriorates - however slowly - over the next six months when you set it again. *Remember: spring and fall tune-ups?

 

[rbohm]

I forget, but isn't the points gap supposed to be .015 or so? .024 sounds WAY too big...

8) .017 for the V8 and .024 for the six. i looked it up as i thought he had them too wide also.

 

[CobraSix]

I agree...get the pertronix in and marvel at the wonder of electronic ignition.

Seriously, you'll think you have a different car when it starts up.

That is, unless your problems are being caused by something else.

If you are running the hotter coil from the original wiring, it will not be producing full voltage either. Did you check your ignition wire for Key on voltage reading? Sometimes, 'original' wires have been changed over time. That was how mine was 9 years ago when I bought it. I was at 12V at the coil and was blowing through points quickly.

 

[ludwig]

If you are running the hotter coil from the original wiring, it will not be producing full voltage either. Did you check your ignition wire for Key on voltage reading? Sometimes, 'original' wires have been changed over time. That was how mine was 9 years ago when I bought it. I was at 12V at the coil and was blowing through points quickly.

This is true If you are running a hotter, aftermarket coil. If so, you want to get full 12v to it rather than the 6v of the stock coil. The Ptx will run the stock coil; it is just a trigger. However, if you want a big fat spark, you need a hotter coil - along with a slightly wider plug gap. For this, you need switched, full voltage. Check out this diagram:

http://midlife66.com/wiring/66ignit.jpg

To get switched full power, you tap into the 297/16 wire out the back of the ignition switch. Actually it will be the the red/green wire. Unplug the pink resistor wire and run a new wire to the coil. I had a schematic of this on a different site but it has been taken down. You can get the switched, full power in a location other than the ignition switch, but this makes the most sense to me.

Bottom line: You can run the Ptx as is with the stock coil. You can boost its power with a 12x coil and full voltage

 

[jb1rd]

Many,many thanks to all, you have been a really big help. I discovered in doing all the other things you all suggested, and they were spot on, I discovered that I had 12.25volts going to my coil. I did change the coil to stock and added the resistor, made good sounds when fired up. Now to get it to idle, can run it fast, but when the choke plate lets off, it stalls. everytime! but, its late and I can't tackle that tonight. Another day. Again, thanks for all youyr help. I now have clean feeler guages and alcohol(preps) in my tool box. Thanks again, I'll be back tomorrow after I try tackling the carb problem. goodnight.

 

[ludwig]

Just a suggestion, but you want the wire loop gauges rather than the flat blade feeler gauges. The flat ones measure the distance between the high spots on either side. If you are measuring used plugs, the spark will have etched a slight dip in the tang over the electrode. The wire gauge will sink into this little depression and give a more accurate reading.

 

[jb1rd]

Hey ludwig, I hadn't thougth about that little rounded out area, many thanks, a few thousandths goes a long way, at least my wife says so, oops wrong thread!!!