Looking for timing curve advice, max advance, stock 170..

mkgcars

Active member
Have a stock '65 170, w/thick head gasket (so lower compression).
Is an automatic, but has cars original '64 Loadamatic dizzy for a manual tranny (checked the part # C4...-Z).
Run the autolite with a 67 jet.
Run points. (Dwell doesn't vary much at all, maybe half a degree at most).


I hooked up a vacuum pump to the diaphram to see how much advance I was getting total, and it was 30.5 degrees (just advance, not counting base).
The dizzy plate is stopped by the secondary spring post - there's still some space between the primary spring post and the cut-out for it.

With the spring settings I have now I'm seeing 30 degress of advance at 2500 rpm (steady throttle) w/5.5" of vacuum.

I've run the base timing at 10 and 12 and it seems about the same performance-wise, a little better low-end w/12 degrees.

Questions:
For this engine/setup, have I got the max advance where I want it? Is 40-42 total at 2500 ball park? Do I want more? Do I want it sooner/later? [or what are ways to make those judgemenets - just driving it?]

Should I file the dizzy plate's post slot so that it will advance a bit more?
[Is this the difference between the manual and auto dizzy- the plate cut outs providing max advance?]

Note: It's hard to tell when this thing is pinging. I run 91 octane when I can find it, but will fill up with 93 and then add some 89 along the way when I can't find the 91.

matt



background
Originally with the spring tension at mid to loose the max advance was reached at 4-5" of vacuum which I was seeing around 1800-2000 RPM.

One of the issues I was seeing was that what I think was too much advance at lower revs- something like @1200 rpm was seeing 28 degrees.

When I set the base timing at 6 it had seemed like I had better power at highway speeds, and lower bottom end. When I set the base to 12 it seemed the oppositte.

So, I set the spring settings (by moving the eliptical post) to the most tension, which gave me more range. I figure if the curve is flattened out a bit then I can raise the base and not get too much too soon.
 
With the lower compression I would technically need less advance right?
Well, I'll try the base at 14 and see how that goes. That will bring total advance to 44 around 2500 or so.
I'll let you know how it works out.
 
With lower compression, the engine can handle more advance. Smallblock V-8's with a convention distributor operate in the range of 25 deg total at idle, Wide open throttle timing of about 36 degrees and highway crusing can be 45-50+ deg. I do not know what the load-a-matic will deliver at WOT. But I would say if you can get all of your timing in by 2500 rpm or lower without pinging, then that will provide better torque. The factory spec on my '66 Mustang 200 had a peak torque at 2400 rpm, so it sounds like your timing is coming in when it should.
The shop manuals have the total advance for a particular distributor model number for a few rpm levels. Keep in mind the manual will post the advance in distributor degrees which need to be doubled in order to obtain the crankshaft degrees that we normally converse in.
Doug
 
Doug - thanks a ton!

The info in the '65 Ford manual now makes sense to me with your info that it's in dist-degrees. For example, it notes 15.5 max for my dist #, and I'm seeing 30.5 crankshaft.

I know I'm over analyzing, but now I can go back and compare some of the numbers I'm seeing at different vacuum and rpm and do a ballpark comparison to the specs.

thanks again,
matt
 
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