mismatched tooth pattern on new cam

wsa111":2fe711e6 said:
The shaft end play should be .022-.033"

I feel personnally snake bitten with this problem. Even with the first camshaft i installed & with the stock rocker arm shaft with the oiling pedistal i have always seen gear wear.

Bill
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing out the typo on the clearance, I looked at the wrong numbers in my book. My vision gets fuzzy when I'm on the puter for hours on end. :wink:

I know how you feel. It could very well be gear hardness, but if the cam is already showing signs of wear, a harder gear is only going to accelerate cam gear wear. I'm guessing its another issue you are overlooking. If its a combination of issues, its just going to be that much harder to identify them. When you installed a new cam, did you use a new gear and follow the breakin procedures? It's hard for me to see the wear pattern on the pic you posted, but it appears to be to the right of center, which indicates the gear is riding low on the cam centerline. This can be rectified by shimming the dizzy, which is a place to start.

I have faith you'll figure it out, as I know how persistant you can be. :bang: :wink:

Here's a couple photos I didn't use in the article.

The first photo shows the cam centerline, which can't be changed. However the dizzy can be raised or lowered to change wear patterns by installing or removing shims, or changing the gear location on the shaft, which is harder to do and requires re-drilling the pin set.
centerA.JPG


The next photo shows the dizzy centerline, which can't be changed. However it shows how cam walk results in moving the gear off the centerline. This is prevented by the camshaft thrust plate. Considering most of our motors have a lot of miles on them, the plate may have a lot of wear too. The only fix is to replace the plate, or use shims. However I have never heard of shims being used, so I don't know if this is a viable option? The only thrust plates that are available are used, so it might be the only option, or maybe installing a button?
centerC.JPG
 
Stubby":1xaq3pna said:
We also need the info from those who don't have any problems. This will give some good comparisons. Maybe help narrow the focus.
Click to expand...

This may or may not help. I have put cams in several engines(no small ford sixes) . I have never had a dist gear problems. I have always used a used dist gear. and I have never used a high volume or high pressure oil pump.
 
80broncoman":17kfryo9 said:
Stubby":17kfryo9 said:
We also need the info from those who don't have any problems. This will give some good comparisons. Maybe help narrow the focus.
Click to expand...

This may or may not help. I have put cams in several engines(no small ford sixes) . I have never had a dist gear problems. I have always used a used dist gear. and I have never used a high volume or high pressure oil pump.
Click to expand...

8) what did you do, or not do, that would contribute to not having a problem. when i rebuilt my 289 many years ago, i lubed everything, including the cam and dist gears before assembly, and used the recommended break in procedure. i also changed the oil several times over the next 3k miles, and never had a problem. every engine that i have done this way has never had a problem.
 
When I was doing my research, I was looking at the block and wondered if there would be a way of drilling an oil hole around the oil filter, thru to the gears. Looks like it might be possible?

Then Does10s e-mailed me and said when he was priming a motor, he saw a small stream of oil hitting the gears. He couldn't tell where it was coming from, but said it was coming from the block. Unfortunately he didn't pay much attention to it at the time, as this discussion wasn't going on.

Maybe Ford already did this? Or could be someone modified the block Will has? Either way, I'm going to look into it. If anyone has a motor on a stand and can try this, let us know.
 


It's a little hard to see, but I thought it was on the factory lube schematics, anyway? Drilled diagonally up into the shaft's pilot area.

The cam helix on this all-original 221 is unworn.
 
I looked everywhere for a lube schematic, but could find one. I've seen it somewhere online, but had no luck finding it last week. Thanks Addo.
 
8) i just looked at my 66 falcon shop manual, and it appears that there is a small galley that branches off from the feed galley from the oil filter that goes to the distributor. it also looks like it has a restriction built into the galley. this was on a sketch of the oil system though, so i dont know how accurate it is. but if the galley is there then perhaps the restriction either is too small, or is plugged in some cases.
 
Rich, you may have something here. I noticed the flood of oil just like Will did when priming the engine, but never investagated the source.

If my supply to the distributor is ok, then it leads me to a hardness problem with the dizzy gear????

Does anyone have a block apart where even air can be induced into the oil system.

Very interesting, makes me wanting to pull my dizzy & install my primer shaft & check this deal a lot further. Bill
 
I cant prime mine right now because the head is off it but when I get the head back from the machine shop and installed I have to prime it so I can check it out.

Gonna be a 2 or 3 more weeks though.... :(

Later,

Doug
 
I've given the oilway a good looking over and have the following surmises:

The long horizontal oilway is 100% drilled after casting, the ratio of diameter/length being too "iffy" for a sand core to hold up. It intersects with the machining of the lifter bores, creating the ability for oil to reach the lifters. That's why we can run hydraulic tappets in a solid tappet motor. There's no way to drill twelve little cross-holes.

Similarly, there's no real way another aperture could be created (from my examination) for oiling the distributor gear - other than trickle from above. Just not the angle to get a drill in. I think the distributor pilot oiling comes directly from pressure feed to the oil filter, and is thus unfiltered.
 
Now I haven't seen this even in pics so take this for what it is worth.
Why couldn't You can drill a hole from the out side of the bolck anywhere
And then just plug the outside hole.
 
Since i have the 1.65 yella-terra full roller rocker arms, the oil which would come from #1 rocker shaft pedestal does not happen with my setup.

The yella-terra rockers use the SBF oil through lifter as there means for oil to the pushrods & the rocker arms, thus you loose a lot of oil going to the hole in the front lifter galley which drips oil right on the camshaft drive & distributor gears.

When i replace my worn camshaft in the near future i am going to use an idea from crower cams & howard cams. They have a extra oiling lifter which has a flat ground on the side of the lifter supplying extra lubrication to the camshaft. This gave me the idea.

:idea: :idea: :idea: So i am going to use 2 modified lifters one before the dizzy oil hole & the next lifter behind the oiling orifice.

This i hope will give me the extra oiling to the dizzy gear.

DSC_00022007-11-26.jpg


This oiling slot is about .030 wide by .025 deep just in these 2 lifters.

This along with a hardened gear & proper anti-wear coating will do the job.

I will let you know after i get the gears & have run this combination. Bill
 
I called crow cams in australia & ordered several hardened gears.

I spoke with Martin & he said their gears are hardened to 45 RC.

They have been selling these gears for years & that has eliminated all dizzy gear wear.

I believe Mike @ classic inlines plans to possibly offer them via his website.

AC Delco gears are 26 RC hardness.

I also had 2 AC Delco gears gas nitrated & they tested 50 RC.

Hopefully this will be the end of my dizzy gear wear, Bill
 
:? Hope that this is`nt a stupid question.I personally,have never seen the cam thrust plate.However,just from reading the descriptions given,would it not be easy to make new ones?
Just seems like some flat plate of proper type steel cut to shape,and drilled for the cam and mounting bolts and then hardened.Or,am I way off base?And would FoMoCo have a hissy fit if someone did this?
Leo
 
I got a new one from my local parts store. They had to order it in but it was cheap. It's a Melling I think, but I've moved and it's still in a box somewhere, so when I find it I'll post a part number.
 
8) leo, if you replicated cam thrust plates, the only way ford would have a problem is if you put a ford part number on it.
 
Guys, today i pulled the dizzy that had the ac delco F719 gear hardened by the heat treater to over 40RC.
That did the trick, even with a scored camshaft drive gear the driven gear looks like new & with a nice wear contact pattern.
The ac delco f719 gear that was not hardened showed a slight amount of scoring.
Either use the crow cams gear or use a hardened ac delco gear for total elimination of scoring.
I also spoke with another expert on engines & he agreed with me that if this did not fix the problem, that the distributor bore or the camshaft is out of specs on my production engine. Mine is a early 67 block.
The hardened gear maybe a bandaid just hiding the problem with this cylinder block.
If anyone else has had gear wear problems, take note of the production date of the block. Could be a machining error by ford in that time frame causing the problem.
Other members have had no wear at all even using the soft gears available. Thanks Bill
 
I now have for sale 7 hardened dizzy gears for sale.
They are hardened to over 40 RC. $42.00 which includes shipping to the lower 48. PM me if interested. Bill

See my ad in the for sale section of the forum.
 
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