Mopar 69-74 Pro-Stock Hemi Dominator 2 x 4 IR set up?

The Germans with the Porsche 911 with Solex or Weber 3 chokes, the Saab 96 two strokes with the Solex 34w2 3 chokes, and then the Americans after trying to get twin carbs reliable found that your percentages on long term idle tuning success and ultimate performance was best found when individual port on port throttles had a unified control so each throttle stayed at the same throttle position.

The trap door 1954 Holley 4-bbl was first cut a proper throttle multiplication without tuning issues, then the 1957 312 y block 4150 4-bbl was second leap forward, but but for independent runner, port on port success, it was a lot longer.

The Solex 34w2 3 bbl found in the two stroke Saab 96 in bull-nose form was fully sorted, then the failure of the 911t's very poor Solex 3 and Weber 3 bbls forced Bosch to make a sigle throttle body serve six cylinders. Ford was in despite with the Government over anti trust matters, sot eh Autolite company was bankrupted to become Motorcraft with a large , typically insider trading like Ford write down in value. This meant the Autolite was a disputed item with Bendix Technico. After being bitten by their early systems in performance Pre 1974 Aston Martin DBS V8's, Jag v12 prototypes, Maserati's, Benz's, Chevy Vega Cosworths, and Triumph 2500 Pi's, Bendix, Bosch, Bico and Lucas were rushing headlong to single throttle body EFI; from the Space Age, and electronic machine control work, they all knew electronic pulse width or solenoid operation was going to be where reliability was at for the 70's and 80's.

The early inline Autolites were very bad with respect to idle and fuel delivery, Ford had to do a lot of work to make them pass emissions. The last 1973 351 C twin inline Autolite set up Ak Miller tested when he was still with Ford was sublimely settled with respect to idle, and yet still had massive performance. And it used many stock 1100 parts. Because of this, it was dead in the water.


Today, an I6 tunnel ram exists. Two Solex 34w2's with 29 mm chokes would do a pretty good job up to 5000 rpm on a 200 Ford.




From a Saab site




The four bolt Solex carbs are rare, but the Scandinavians are making again the Monte Carlo and long nose triple carb parts again. The triple choke simultaneous throttle bodies can take a four bolt 1-bbl Solex easily. Solex is now part of Weber Marelli after the French sold it to Pierburg in the early 1980's, so Solex stuff is kind hard to find. But what is great is that the Swedes figured out how to tune all three carbs together, and with a just a Chevy idle control solenoid, its possible to get six Solex carbs to run as a six pack of carbs with the right linkage parts.


They are still too tall to package on a 250 unless you do a hood bulge.

I went through the twin PMO remade IDA3 Weber set up (Lambo Muira, Lancia Statos, early Porsche 911) and its very good but has the normal long term reliability problems of throttle adjustment at 50000 miles. The whole reason those early POPIR systems failed was throttle balance when worn, something foreign to a 4-bbl Holley or 62, 65 or 70 mm Ford EEC 4 or 5 isolated runner EFI system.
 
Similar in principal was the old MG Maestro R series twin 36DCNF Weber's on a similar to Fiat intake manifold system, as used in the carbed Aston Martin/Ferrari/Maserati and performance Fiats and Simca's. But there are 40 and 42 DCNF's around if you know where to look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDKHBUk9VYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmgRCl4m ... uvdl7B5rLf

With next to no other mods, its took an 81bhp in single SU HIF44mm carburettor form to 103bhp in twin-Weber MG tune, a 27% boost in power.

fiat36dcnffrontvga.jpg

fiat36dcnfrearsvga.jpg


The percentage boost on a 1-bbl Falcon six would be a lot more than 27%.


Here is a little 100 cubic inch 1640 cc CVH Ford with twin 40 DCNF's and 30 mm chokes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z39xTKPBW0M

gave 120 hp and 118 l-ft on a rolling road which should be about 150 hp and lb-ft. That's over 1.5 hp and lb-ft per cube from a fairly stock engine with just a big cam

What's better is that 50 years of air cooled VW and Ferrari feedback existes to get a/f right, and the choke sizes are right down the line of that graph above.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-32 ... ing-4.html

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502274
 
The reason for the background work has been to shore up an understanding that Ford's High Performance Road and Race engines went from 1-bbl per 2 cylinder designs to POPIR (Port On Port Independent Runner) systems with 1 bbl per cylinder. They did this in production car homologated race steps. It resulted in the AMA ban of 57, and when Ford decided not to honour it, it went right back to Quasi IR systems in 63. Same thing happened in Trans Am racing in 69. The in line 4-bbl Cross Boss 302 Autolite 875 cfm carb is a great example of where Ford had already been; it ran with the twin Dominator Port On Port Independent Runner combinations..

1st.From the first Trap Door 4-bbl in the 1955 Y blocks to the 8V E codes and S/C F codes for 56, Ford went to quasi Independent runner in 1 year!.

2. Then in 63, they went right to port on port with the the 427 and then the Tunnel Port 289 240 hp engine. Then the Twin Dominator IR intake for TransAm 1969 Boss 302's, and then the Twin in line Autolite Fours.


It was NASCAR that bit back, and 1-bbl per 2 cylinder carburation by a 4-bbl became the norm from 71 to 2011.

How this fits in with the log head Ford Small Six?

We are dealing with an In Line Small Six version of the Boss 302,


We have a 1-bbl per 2 cylinder carburation option, just like the In line 875 cfm Autolite Cross Boss





Its the Offenhauser Tripower. As little as 255 cfm to as much as 446 cfm.


The Twin 875 cfm InLine fours variant equivalent for our sixes?
DualInLineAutolite4bblcarbs.jpg


Would be triple 45 DCOE'S (1452 cfm rated as a 4-bbl) or down draft IDAs like The Big Six Preparation H would be on a 200 or 250. 1775 cfm at 1.5"Hg


Point is, There is nothing in between a pure IRsystem with 1452 cfm or more, and the 255-446 cfm 1-bbl per 2 cylinder item


In Australia, the 350 to 400 hp 250 X-flows are using 650 4-bbl double pumpers. What does a log I6 guy to get 650 cfm? Three 350 cfm Holleys is 742 cfm, and three DGAS38's is 679 cfm.


Its time to try an intermedate step, a semi Port on Port Independet runner set up.

And spend time creating the right cam to make it behave like its got 1500 cfm.
 
hey xstacy!

i'm checking back in on this thread, haven't checked it in a couple months.

You've read sir harry ricardo, right?

talk about recycling old ideas. high swirl chambers, port induction, tumble and charge inertia, the OEM's are just in the last 15 years figuring out 1920's technology. Someone at mercedes read it in 1934, unfortunately.

even in the u-flow configuration there is massive potential in the 'high port' heads like the yella tera and others, without the complications of rollerized valvetrain, custom camshafts or exotic splayed valves. If CNCdude is able to produce one of those for the big ford, a plenum-runner intake and EFI or one of the ITB setups you are discussing here could easily max out the mechanical limits of the big ford.

to those of us who come from the motorcycle world, its common sense to use ITB's with a plenum-like airbox arrangement in order to tame wild lopey cams needed to deliver the terrific power-per-cube of sportbike engines. Running with a single throttle point is unheard of, and running without the plenum results in a total loss of torque.


as to the benefits of ITB vs. a throttled-plenum style arrangement? I suppose full pressure in the plenum provides better torque at low rpms as there is higher pressure available at the mouth of the inlet tract? I don't know if the throttle blade resistance would be the dominant effect or some sort of sonic effect from the pressure wave expanding into a lower or higher pressure volume?
 
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