My 200 w/AC overheats what about fitting a 390 radiator?
- Thread starter preston215
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I admit I'm baffled by the overheating issues some of you have. My experience has been that if all the components are properly working, the cooling system is more than adequate to cool the engine, even with stock radiators. Keep in mind that the only difference in the radiators between a 200 and a hipo 289 are the inlets and outlets. The core size is the same 2 row. Ford did offer a three row heavy duty radiator for extreme climates and A/C.
The two most common things I have encountered on cars that do overheat are: 1. a malfunctioning SCV/Loadomatic advance, or, 2. an engine full of rust and debris.
The Loadomatic thing is easy to diagnose and correct. Unless it functions properly, your car will overheat at higher speeds or heavy loads. In one rare instance, I found a water pump impeller that had come loose from the shaft.
The engine block debris is harder to fix. You can "flush" the block until the cows come home and a ton of crap will remain lodged in the block at the bottom of the cylinder wall, especially at the very rear of the block where coolant velocity is lowest. It will slowly choke off the flow in and around the cylinders and very often the debris will dislodge and clog your radiator. The only way to fix it is to physically remove it by digging it out with a rod and flushing the heck out of the block several times.
You might be able to get a lot of it out with a prolonged chemical soak, but much of the debris could be casting sand and nothing chemical will touch that stuff. The attached pic shows what I dug out of the crosssflow conversion block. Much of it was sand, not rust.
If the overheating is mostly at low speed and idling in traffic, you might have an airflow issue. A shroud, a better fan, or an aux electric fan might help. If the overheating is at highway speeds, most likely you have either an ignition issue or a water flow issue thru the bock or the radiator.
The two most common things I have encountered on cars that do overheat are: 1. a malfunctioning SCV/Loadomatic advance, or, 2. an engine full of rust and debris.
The Loadomatic thing is easy to diagnose and correct. Unless it functions properly, your car will overheat at higher speeds or heavy loads. In one rare instance, I found a water pump impeller that had come loose from the shaft.
The engine block debris is harder to fix. You can "flush" the block until the cows come home and a ton of crap will remain lodged in the block at the bottom of the cylinder wall, especially at the very rear of the block where coolant velocity is lowest. It will slowly choke off the flow in and around the cylinders and very often the debris will dislodge and clog your radiator. The only way to fix it is to physically remove it by digging it out with a rod and flushing the heck out of the block several times.
You might be able to get a lot of it out with a prolonged chemical soak, but much of the debris could be casting sand and nothing chemical will touch that stuff. The attached pic shows what I dug out of the crosssflow conversion block. Much of it was sand, not rust.
If the overheating is mostly at low speed and idling in traffic, you might have an airflow issue. A shroud, a better fan, or an aux electric fan might help. If the overheating is at highway speeds, most likely you have either an ignition issue or a water flow issue thru the bock or the radiator.
preston215
New member
I think that some pics would be helpful so here are some of the two temp gauges in the car showing the "normal" operating temp. http://mustangsharepics.shutterfly.com/pictures/8. (let me know if you can't see the pics)
Some rather important points-
1) The metered gauge typically reads 150°F, this is too low an operating temp, should be at least 180°F (uses its own sensor);
2) My 160° thermostat obviously is opening up <160°;
3) The Ford temp gauge shows 3/4 which has to be way off proving the new temp sensor I have can't be properly calibrated;
4) Sitting in traffic on a warm/hot day, ~90°F, temp shoots up above 190°F w/o the AC on and its been established that's NOT overheating.
LaGrastra
I very much enjoyed talking with you and sharing our experiences at the ET show.
MustangSix
The "SCV/Loadomatic advance", I think your refereing to the vacuum advance both low and high rpm? If not any info on how to test it would be great.
Shroud
The problem here is that no one makes one except for some custom Aluminum ones on eBay. I thought I found one for a 65-66 Mustang 200ci at Mustang Plus, from Vintage Air, but they don't carry it anymore, they said they had problems with it. I called Vintage, (they make the aftermarket AC kit for the 200ci 67 Mustang), they couldn't find any in there stock and they gave me the impression they never have had one in the first place. I went to a junkyard and found a shroud in the ball park of fitment but its too deep and was a waist of time, not much variety there. I know I need a shroud for the low end but when I turn on the AC I'm expecting the temp to shoot up above 190°. The bottom line here is at what point am I'm overheating, is it anything over 212°? And anything below that is fine?
Again, thanks for everyone's comments.
Some rather important points-
1) The metered gauge typically reads 150°F, this is too low an operating temp, should be at least 180°F (uses its own sensor);
2) My 160° thermostat obviously is opening up <160°;
3) The Ford temp gauge shows 3/4 which has to be way off proving the new temp sensor I have can't be properly calibrated;
4) Sitting in traffic on a warm/hot day, ~90°F, temp shoots up above 190°F w/o the AC on and its been established that's NOT overheating.
LaGrastra
I very much enjoyed talking with you and sharing our experiences at the ET show.
MustangSix
The "SCV/Loadomatic advance", I think your refereing to the vacuum advance both low and high rpm? If not any info on how to test it would be great.
Shroud
The problem here is that no one makes one except for some custom Aluminum ones on eBay. I thought I found one for a 65-66 Mustang 200ci at Mustang Plus, from Vintage Air, but they don't carry it anymore, they said they had problems with it. I called Vintage, (they make the aftermarket AC kit for the 200ci 67 Mustang), they couldn't find any in there stock and they gave me the impression they never have had one in the first place. I went to a junkyard and found a shroud in the ball park of fitment but its too deep and was a waist of time, not much variety there. I know I need a shroud for the low end but when I turn on the AC I'm expecting the temp to shoot up above 190°. The bottom line here is at what point am I'm overheating, is it anything over 212°? And anything below that is fine?
Again, thanks for everyone's comments.
preston215":2pjc03lf said:
Keep in mind water boils at a higher temperature when under pressure...I can't remember the trade off per lb, but you could google 'water boiling pressure' or some such. That's why a properly rated & functioning cap is very important. AFAIK It's not uncommon for the normal operating temp in modern vehicles to run around 210* give/take. Again, AFAIK normal operating temps above 200* are not necessarily a problem in older cars either depending upon relative climate conditions, driving styles, terrain, cooling system conditions/mods, etc at any given time.
Least scientific method I know for determining you're
overheating...when you turn the key off when it's hot, it's still 'talking' to you...usually 'whistling' pressure, un-nerving groans and creaks from radiator contracting/expanding usually accompanied with significant loss of water during/after operation.
I think rbohm and dagenham have a good point on the shroud...also like&have 6 blade fan. I have a preserved ford dealer/stock under dash a/c system that will go in one of these days, and at that point I'm sure I will employ a shroud (Texas summers pulling hot air through two heat exchanging coils). It's always bothered me that the nose/grill (inlet for air) on my '66 is a bit restrictive. I will probably opt for a homespun or jy shroud at that point...even one too large on the front (radiator side) could be baffled to direct air through the core. Just need to match the fan diameter and make sure the blade is not too far forward into the shroud.
Don't know what the difference in the I6 vs bent8 radiators is in '67, but if it's just inlet/outlet location that could probably be modified...but they're not cheap from the parts houses...eg
http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatal ... hrouds.htm
Good luck!
The v8 shroud can be made to fit, but it's a little off in fan size and position. Might be more effective to make your own shroud.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... fan+shroud
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... fan+shroud
preston215":bqrx9ig8 said:
Pay no attention to where the gauge on the dash indicates. It'll vary from TSU to TSU. Use it more for a general relative reference only. 190* sitting in traffic in So Cal is not a bad temperature. How high does it get with the AC on?
Maybe I missed it, but have you replaced your heater core at all? Replace the hoses?
I doubt the size of your radiator is the problem. However, they do make a 3 row copper core radiator that looks like a stock 2 row core radiator. That may help bring the temps down some more.
I bought my Mustang brand new w/ dealer-installed AC. Drove it off the show room floor and proceeded to drive the daylight out of it.
Never had a heating problem with the ac on.
Not many people know this but at that time, Houston was the Air-condition Capitol of The World..
me thinks Detroit was teaching Texas a lesion ….
Why you ask….. because they felt the need to send the AC Capitol of the World a brand new Fast Back factory equipped 200ci without AC and a 2 core radiator..
Years latter it began to heat up w/ ac on. Then over heat in stop go traffic w/ac on. Parked the car for nearly 20 years.
Then restored it. Still over heated in stop and go traffic w/ac on.
I put in a oversize 3-core radiator. This forced me to make a new fan adaptor you see in the picture below.
Still over heated in traffic w/ac on.
Last month I decided to rebuild my engine for many reasons but none having to do with it over heating…. Go figure...
In the picture below you can clearly see why my motor overheated.
The water ports were completely closed off from rust sludge. I used a small ball hammer and a small punch to clear them.
I have accidentally found my overheating issue. I could have put in a 10 core radiator and packed hot-ice on the head
and it still would have overheated in traffic w/ac on…
So I agree with other members here… your radiator is not the sole cause of your heating issue..
Is your head water ports blocked… don’t have a clue…..
all I know for certain preston215...... is MINE were..
Never had a heating problem with the ac on.
Not many people know this but at that time, Houston was the Air-condition Capitol of The World..
me thinks Detroit was teaching Texas a lesion ….
Why you ask….. because they felt the need to send the AC Capitol of the World a brand new Fast Back factory equipped 200ci without AC and a 2 core radiator..
Years latter it began to heat up w/ ac on. Then over heat in stop go traffic w/ac on. Parked the car for nearly 20 years.
Then restored it. Still over heated in stop and go traffic w/ac on.
I put in a oversize 3-core radiator. This forced me to make a new fan adaptor you see in the picture below.
Still over heated in traffic w/ac on.
Last month I decided to rebuild my engine for many reasons but none having to do with it over heating…. Go figure...
In the picture below you can clearly see why my motor overheated.
The water ports were completely closed off from rust sludge. I used a small ball hammer and a small punch to clear them.
I have accidentally found my overheating issue. I could have put in a 10 core radiator and packed hot-ice on the head
and it still would have overheated in traffic w/ac on…
So I agree with other members here… your radiator is not the sole cause of your heating issue..
Is your head water ports blocked… don’t have a clue…..
all I know for certain preston215...... is MINE were..
CobraSix":25l2wujg said:
Hey Cobra
Actually no, I did not flush it at all.
I never drove it much before I pulled the engine to build a tri carb set up.
Only then did I discover how bad the ports were blocked…
If I had not decided to modify the engine I would probably be here trying to figure out the overheating problem. duhhhh
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