Need advice, ready to buy cam

Ronn

Well-known member
Heres what I'm dealing with.


fresh built 250, stock specs except .020 over bore. Stock cams bearings new. I plan to run a 1 bbl as primary and holley 350 2 bbl as secondary with a custom intake. Will plane head .035. Everythings new in thew engine including springs, rods, seals etc for the valves. I will have 550 cfm's available at WOT.

What cam, what part number, and what spacers, shims etc do I need to install this cam easily into the existing stock bearings with no machine work? What tricks or whatever can I get? I plan to put it in while I got the head off. I have visa right now waiting to buy, all advice needed......now :roll: :D
 
With a cast manifold, I'd suggest a split duration cam. Longer on the exhaust. My pick (assuming manual trans) would be 270°/280° or around that area (the one I am referencing, Crow's 63666 has 204/214° @ 50 thou).

Compare your cams at 50 thou, as well as advertised durations. Don't overspring it, either. Just enough to avoid float.
 
I'm using an 85 AOD Auto, and a custom intake and carbs to flow 550 cfm.



also, stock springs should be fine right? They are new and I don'r plan on going above 4200 rpms.



I need to know if this will slide right in and be lined up and all that, are there any clearances I need to measure and what tool do I need? I'm pretty sure this can be done without removing the harmonic balancer right?



I don't know where to find the cam you said.

Heres what I found right a Ford Six Parts, would this be suitable for my set up?

Product ID: CSC-264-DHS
CSC-268 Hydraulic Dual Pattern Camshaft
Details

Adv dur - 264/274 Dur @.050 - 214/224 Lift -.450/.450 Lobe center - 110* Range - 1600-5200
 
Howdy Ronn:

The 264 cam you're looking at is a dual pattern as Addo suggested. It's jsut a little less duration, which should be better for an AOD. It should generate a little more vacuum.

I know I'm confused and understand why Addo suggested the 270/280 cam- If you're not planning on going above 4,200 rpms, why all the carburetion? More carb is needed as rpms go up. A single Holley 350 on a modified manifold will be more than adequate for this rpm redline. It will get mileage, idle and drive quality as good as a 1 barrel if tuned properly.

I'm thinking you will need to at least shim the new stock springs. I have never tried changing the cam without removing the balancer, so don't know on that one. If you don't have a fresh timing chain and gear set this should be part of the new cam- as well as new lifters.

what is your Compression ratio goal?

Adios, David
 
9.2 - 1 compression

Well the 4200 rpm limit I set is basically a guess. I guess the only way to see how high she will go and still produce power is to do it. I will be running off the 1 bbl full time and the 2 bbl will open later on. If it proves to work fine running just the 2 bbl then I will. Shimming the springs does what? Should I line the new cam up the same way the old one is as far as timing chain goes? Everything is new in this engine.
 
Well, the CR you have nominated makes the 264/274° a better bet, as do the RPM range and the auto trans.

You will need to remove the balancer - which is easy with a $15 tool. Your timing cover oil seal fits around the balancer snout. When reassembling, use assembly lube on the lip of your oil seal and the balancer snout. If you don't have a head gasket already, ask for a "Cam Change" gasket kit which has the head gasket, front cover gaskets and an oil seal.

As you're not planning to go above 4200 at the present, I would venture to say the stock springs ought to be fine. Above that will depend a little.

Follow the instructions on lining up your timing set and it should all come together just fine. Be generous with the assembly lube, too. Before dropping in the lifters, set the motor at #1 TDC compression. This will ease the setup of your valvetrain and initial timing - the less cranking before you have oil pressure, the better.

Regards, Adam.
 
Ronn, you have received advice from two experts.
Lets go to the next level. You stated you might try to up the rpm's just to see what you have.
Lets regroup, that being the case go the fspp 214 @ .050 on the intake & 224 @ .050 on the exhaust but go with the 112 degree lobe center for a better idle since you are using the AOD trans. Use the 350 cfm holley & scrap the 1 barrel setup. If you want a milder camshaft go with the 260 competion camshaft which has 212 degrees @ .050.
get rid of your stock valve springs & go with springs in the 80 to 100 lb. seat pressure range. The stock springs are a joke. They have no damper for spring harmonics & are not worth a damm over 3500 rpm's using modern camshaft fast profile opening & closing rates.
Get in touch with mike at fspp & get a 4th choice. good luck William
 
Split duration cam helps to overcome the obvious downfalls of these motor's cylinder head design.
 
yep, your link works. But I can't find the cam that William above mentioned. I see one but it's 110 degree lobe center. Would make much a difference?

Also, David mentioned shimming springs...is this a way to get more poundage out of them, you know, make em tighter? New springs do sound logical though.

Whats with the .05 thou thing with the cam? Is that a measurement? Sorry if I seem ignorant, just want to know how it works, why it works etc etc lol I know very little about cam tech, just the simple hands on stuff. Please fill me in?
 
Duration is measured at 50 thou because the different grinders may approach this point differently. You can have an "aggressive" cam that opens sharply, or a smoother one that opens more gently. But if both start and finish at the same number of degreres, how to tell them apart?

That's why the 50 thou is considered to be relevant. It's a benchmark of when flow is unquestionably developing in the ports. The aggressive one referred above would show a longer duration at 50, compared to the gentle one. So, what at first appeared similar, are now demonstrated different.

I can't get FSPP myself right now (heat messes the dialup speed, as my phone wires literally are baking in the sun) but the 112° might be a special order. WSA should be on the money, though with that suggestion. If your idle's too rough at normal idle speed with the cam, you'll have to spring for a new stall converter - more money. That's why he's nominated it - it ought to work better with what you have.

Your springs should be consistent with each other, and only replaced / beefed up if needed. Otherwise, it's wasted HP. Valve float on a motor like this will be noticed as a performance curve that deteriorates sharply, not as a nasty "crunch" inside the motor.

Regards, Adam.
 
So replacing the springs with heavier would be wise? I just did'nt want to dig to deep into the engine as I have a phobia that if I mess with something too much..it won't work lol.

Will the 110 degree work for me? Do you feel that the added roughness in idle is a fair trade for the performance gain? Would it be that much different between 2 degrees?


Thanks so much for yalls help so far. I just want to make an educated/informed choice and have it work without a bunch of added fussin around. Not that I can't handle using a spring compressor to take the retainers and seals off the valves so the springs can be changed, it's just that, well, ...aw just tell me how much for the cam and springs and I'll see to it asap! :lol:
 
So there is a major diffrence when running a 110 compared to a 112? Im running a beefed up C4, would a 110 not be good for it? This is good information.

Later,

Curtis
 
Howdy guys.

I wrote a brief article on How to Select the Right Camshaft.
Comp Cams has one as well, which goes into greater detail. I suggest reading both. If you still have questions after reading these to tech articles, I'd be happy to help. I agree with David, Addo, and wsa111, the 264/274 dual pattern cam would be my choice for your setup, along with a 350cfm carb.

All of the cam profiles I have listed, can be ordered in the lobe center of your choice. I may not have them in stock, but can usually have one custom ground (no extra charge) in a day or two.

My old website (http://www.fordsixparts.com) is down temporarily. It links to the new website (http://www.cquesttechnologies.com/fspp/Selectingcam.asp) which is up and running . I kept the old website for various reasons, but am having difficulties with them again (like the past two years). :evil:

Sorry for the confusion. :wink:
 
Howdy Ronn and All:

Cam Profiles- Ronn, If you can imagine a comparison of an egg and a pointed dunces cap. Imagine that they are the same height and the same width across the base. IF you were to superimpose the profile of the egg over the cap, note the area of egg that overlaps the hat. An egg profiled cam, with the same degrees of duration, lift and lobe seperation, will out perform a cap shaped cam. The duration at .050" begins to tell the rest of the story.

Back in the old days of serious "stock" car drag racing, stock cams were determined by duration and lift alone. It didn't take the boys long to figure out that a fatter profile out performed the stock profile. Thus cheater "Stock" cams were born.

Shimming stock springs- Stock springs are measured for seat pressure/valve closed position and Valve open. They are rated at a given height of 1.22" open and 1.69" closed. Stock '78 and later springs are rated at 150#@1.22" valve open/spring compressed. And 54#@1.59" valve closed.

Wear of the valve face and seat, valve stem/rocker arm contact, and valve spring pockets cause the actual valve lengths to grow. As these dimensions grow the spring has less compression and, consequently less tension. These factors all add to less spring pressure and premature valve float at higher rpms.

Given your investment in your engine it seems to me that starting with new stock springs, or at least, tested-up to specs, old springs, and shimmed at least to specification heights is cheap insurance. Spring shims were initially designed to allow head rebuilders to get springs back to stock specs after machining seats and valve faces. Exceeding spec heights is good to a point. That point is coil bind, or compressing the stock springs so tight that the coils are closed and therefore solid. Shimmed stock springs with a higher lift cam should be checked carefully before start up.

Also, with a higher lift cam, make sure that there is clearance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the valve stem seal.

Anymore spring pressure than you need to control valve action at your max rpm is wasted, and causes premature wear.

Lighter weight or lightened components should also be considered when planning a performance valve train. Adjustible rocker arms, and corresponding pushrods, will also help in avoiding valve float caused by hydraulic lifter pump-up.

Dual Pattern Cam design- In theory, the longer exhaust duration is supposed to compensate for exhaust flow deficiencies. NASCAR engine builders found some value in dual pattern cams at restrictor plate tracks. Even with headers, the downward kink at the port exit in six cylinder heads impedes exhaust flow as rpms go up. A dual pattern cam can't hurt and may help in some areas.

It's what I'm using next. I'd love to hear from anyone who has already gone that route.

Adios, David
 
When is recess?

lol, Thank you, I am feeling more informed already. Cam will be bought this weekend.

264/274 dual is what I'll go with as well as new springs. But like you said David, going to high in poundage will wear things out faster and cause more heat. So would 80# springs be alright?
 
Ronn, 80# springs at the seat will be in the ballpark for your application. Did you chose the 112 degree lobe center for a better idle with your aod?? I'm sure you will be satisfied with your camshaft choice.
mike will steer you to make the right choice. More power to you, William
 
Yes sir, 112 it will be. I trust you, even only after a couple weeks, I trust you :roll: :D Seriously though.


Another question, would any of you have the stock cam specs for the 250 so I might have comparison?
 
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