I have a inline 200 with the adaptor for the holley 500. Ok I just put the carb on my car. The idle is great, the accelerator pump is great, but the cruise is bad and when I first hit the pedal it falls on its face. I have a short band o2 senser. When it is cruising and when I first hit the pedel all my lights go out which is telling me its lean. I started with the 68 main jets. Then I changed them to 73 main jets. I noticed a improvment, but both jets are so lean "I THINK" that there is no lights. Do I go to bigger jets? Not sure what to do!!
NEED help on holley 2300!!!!!
- Thread starter MiniCJJ64
- Start date
Is this a new, rebuilt, or used carb? You may have aproblem with a leaking or incorrect power valve.
Gene Fiore
Famous Member
Is this on a stock 200? Any mods? The 4412 is a rather large carb if you have no mods and it seems hard to believe that it would be too lean. I'm no expert, but it seems to me like it would be too rich and that is why it falls on its' face. I'm sure others who have more experience will chime in eventually! I'm sure you will be able to get it straightened out with all the help available on this forum.
Take your sensor out and see if there is buildup plugging it up. Running too rich for too long can do this. Also, doublecheck your sensor with mpg readings. Did your mpg change with the 73 jets? You really should be too rich with that jetting, not too lean - just ask guys like wsa111 or kirkallen143.
Does the metering block look like it has been altered? If someone before you has changed the restrictors or air bleeds, it could cause it to be lean.
Is it a one-wire (non heated) sensor? I think if it cools off it will stop sending a voltage, causing no lights on your meter.
Frank
Does the metering block look like it has been altered? If someone before you has changed the restrictors or air bleeds, it could cause it to be lean.
Is it a one-wire (non heated) sensor? I think if it cools off it will stop sending a voltage, causing no lights on your meter.
Frank
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ht=wsa+111 http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ight=Maybe these old post will help if not try to pm WSA111.
grocery getter
Famous Member
MiniCJJ64":25k3wyjg said:
big carb means more cfm. (air) your engine doesn't need the cfm this carb flows.
wsa111 has had success with these. I doubt he's using the same adapter as you are.
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Bad part about the 500cfm is that the venturies are too large for a stock 200. You will be fine at WOT and idle, but part throttle will suffer tremendously. I have worked with the 500cfm for about a year before switching to the 350cfm (which still needed tinkering). I have seen some change the booster out to give more of a restriction in the venturi which helped part throttle (some).
Do you have a brown pump cam? Go up on the squirter to a 0.031" (if not already) and also try a 0.035", and the #2 position on the pump cam. This will give a little larger initial shot of fuel and keep it there until the boosters come in.
Boosters usually come in about 2000 - 2300rpms. IF you do not cruise in this rpm range the boosters are never coming in and you are relying on your idle curcuit for needed fuel (lean). Your jets are what you want to control your cruise. The jets and PV (pvcr's) control your heavy load and WOT. That way you can jet down for good economy and then open the pvcr's large enough for heavy load and WOT. That's the key to good carb tuning, only using the extra fuel when you need it.
Enlarging the IFR's (idle feed restriction, stock is 0.028") in the metering block would help part-throttle, but the idle will suffer being rich, so inturn you would want to enlarge the IAB's on top of the carb (idle air bleeds, outer most brass bleeds on top and they are 0.070" stock). I have tapped/threaded these on my carb for adjustability. You don't need anything over a #68 jet with this carb on our engines.
Check your spark plugs, too.
You want about 0.025" of the transition slot showing under the throttle blades at your current idle (have to take the carb off and turn it upside down to see these slots). These slots are next to the idle discharge hole and they fill the gap when going from idle till when the booster come in. They are control by the size of the IFR's and your air/fuel mixture screws. What are your mixture screws at now? Open them up a 1/2 turn and see if it gets better, but like I say your idle will suffer being rich.
I could go on and on about setting up a carb and it would get lengthy (and it already is), but keep us posted about your progress.
Kirk
Do you have a brown pump cam? Go up on the squirter to a 0.031" (if not already) and also try a 0.035", and the #2 position on the pump cam. This will give a little larger initial shot of fuel and keep it there until the boosters come in.
Boosters usually come in about 2000 - 2300rpms. IF you do not cruise in this rpm range the boosters are never coming in and you are relying on your idle curcuit for needed fuel (lean). Your jets are what you want to control your cruise. The jets and PV (pvcr's) control your heavy load and WOT. That way you can jet down for good economy and then open the pvcr's large enough for heavy load and WOT. That's the key to good carb tuning, only using the extra fuel when you need it.
Enlarging the IFR's (idle feed restriction, stock is 0.028") in the metering block would help part-throttle, but the idle will suffer being rich, so inturn you would want to enlarge the IAB's on top of the carb (idle air bleeds, outer most brass bleeds on top and they are 0.070" stock). I have tapped/threaded these on my carb for adjustability. You don't need anything over a #68 jet with this carb on our engines.
Check your spark plugs, too.
You want about 0.025" of the transition slot showing under the throttle blades at your current idle (have to take the carb off and turn it upside down to see these slots). These slots are next to the idle discharge hole and they fill the gap when going from idle till when the booster come in. They are control by the size of the IFR's and your air/fuel mixture screws. What are your mixture screws at now? Open them up a 1/2 turn and see if it gets better, but like I say your idle will suffer being rich.
I could go on and on about setting up a carb and it would get lengthy (and it already is), but keep us posted about your progress.
Kirk
Ok my neighbor is helping me now and what I have done so far is I got my metering block worked on so its now like wsa111 "bill" metering block. Also I have a adaptor for the carb, so its not direct mounted. When I first started the car I got the idle to work great and it still is great. But I was to lean when I get out of idle. So now after many jet changes I am now at 93 main jets and my 02 sensor says I am still lean, but it is running much better.
Could the adaptor make any of this happen?
Could the adaptor make any of this happen?
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Mini, jets have nothing to do with the idle or transfer (light part-throttle) circuits.
But, if you still want to try the 500cfm on your motor w/ adapter and not do the downleg boosters, you could try the following (I am not saying it will work, but this is what trial and error is all about):
You will have to increase the IFR's (in metering block) up a little to help w/ the lean part throttle. If you do this you will also have to enlarge the IAB's (allowing more air into mixture) on top of the carb to compensate for the increased IFR's. This is to keep your mixture screws at about the same as you have them now.
A change of 0.001" in the IFR is about equal to a 0.005" change in the IAB.
You have a 0.028" IFR and drill it to 0.030", you will need to enlarge the IAB by 0.010" (say your IAB is 0.070" now, it will need to be 0.080"). This is kind of a rule of thumb I came up with my 200, but could be different for other engines.
In the pic, #25 is the IFR in the metering block. The best way to enlarge these is to tap them with a 6-32 thread for removeable brass bleeds.
Same goes for the IAB's on top of the carb, they should be tapped w/ 10-32 threads.
You could also just turn your mixture screws out another full turn, but this will hurt your idle mix making it richer.
Have you tried a higher numbered power valve liek a 10.5 or 8.5? This could help to pull more fuel in at part throttle, but it also depends what your vacuum is at idle and part throttle.
Keep us posted,
Kirk
But, if you still want to try the 500cfm on your motor w/ adapter and not do the downleg boosters, you could try the following (I am not saying it will work, but this is what trial and error is all about):
You will have to increase the IFR's (in metering block) up a little to help w/ the lean part throttle. If you do this you will also have to enlarge the IAB's (allowing more air into mixture) on top of the carb to compensate for the increased IFR's. This is to keep your mixture screws at about the same as you have them now.
A change of 0.001" in the IFR is about equal to a 0.005" change in the IAB.
You have a 0.028" IFR and drill it to 0.030", you will need to enlarge the IAB by 0.010" (say your IAB is 0.070" now, it will need to be 0.080"). This is kind of a rule of thumb I came up with my 200, but could be different for other engines.
In the pic, #25 is the IFR in the metering block. The best way to enlarge these is to tap them with a 6-32 thread for removeable brass bleeds.
Same goes for the IAB's on top of the carb, they should be tapped w/ 10-32 threads.
You could also just turn your mixture screws out another full turn, but this will hurt your idle mix making it richer.
Have you tried a higher numbered power valve liek a 10.5 or 8.5? This could help to pull more fuel in at part throttle, but it also depends what your vacuum is at idle and part throttle.
Keep us posted,
Kirk
Not sure if this is relevant but the Holley 2300 500cfm when used on 2bbls had a stumbling problem on initial acceleration.
Racer Walsh used to sell a kit that fixed this. Cant remember exactly what teh kit did but my dad had to run the kit on his 500cfm Holley on his Pinto.
Racer Walsh used to sell a kit that fixed this. Cant remember exactly what teh kit did but my dad had to run the kit on his 500cfm Holley on his Pinto.
James, my carb is on a direct mount & i have done the same mods to the 4412 for at least 10 guys & you are the only one with problems. On the other carbs i did the mods myself but on yours someone else did the work.
I wonder if the adapter is causing problems.
My main jets are 68
power valve 8.5
pvcr .055 on mine but have also used .052 on some applications to lean out the full throttle a/f as necessary.
IAB .067
Idle restriction .0295
I run the stock brown pump cam using the stock 50 cc pump with a .025 squirter.
Mine has no hesitation or any flat spots & runs to perfection.
I also brazed the .060 holes in both throttle blades shut. With this small engine those are not needed.
Can you borrow another carb even if it is a 7448-350 just to make sure everthing else is kosher??? Bill
I wonder if the adapter is causing problems.
My main jets are 68
power valve 8.5
pvcr .055 on mine but have also used .052 on some applications to lean out the full throttle a/f as necessary.
IAB .067
Idle restriction .0295
I run the stock brown pump cam using the stock 50 cc pump with a .025 squirter.
Mine has no hesitation or any flat spots & runs to perfection.
I also brazed the .060 holes in both throttle blades shut. With this small engine those are not needed.
Can you borrow another carb even if it is a 7448-350 just to make sure everthing else is kosher??? Bill
kirkallen143
Famous Member
wsa111":s2y8no5b said:James, my carb is on a direct mount & i have done the same mods to the 4412 for at least 10 guys & you are the only one with problems. On the other carbs i did the mods myself but on yours someone else did the work.
I wonder if the adapter is causing problems.
My main jets are 68
power valve 8.5
pvcr .055 on mine but have also used .052 on some applications to lean out the full throttle a/f as necessary.
IAB .067
Idle restriction .0295
I run the stock brown pump cam using the stock 50 cc pump with a .025 squirter.
Mine has no hesitation or any flat spots & runs to perfection.
I also brazed the .060 holes in both throttle blades shut. With this small engine those are not needed.
Can you borrow another carb even if it is a 7448-350 just to make sure everthing else is kosher??? Bill
Now compare mine with the 350cfm:
jets are #66
PV is an 8.5
pvcr's are 0.052"
IAB's are 0.078"
idle restrictions are 0.028"
I use the orange pump cam in #1 position w/ a 30cc pump ad a 0.031" squirter.
I idle at 12.5:1 to 13.0:1 afr (depending on humidity) w/ the mixture screws 1 3/8 turns out.
And, I drilled 0.094" holes in each throttle blade (solve my part throttle lean issues)
I have no hesitation or issues either.
I did this to compare between two engines, mine is realativly stock when I'm not into boost. Like they say each engine combo is different even with the same setup.
Kirk
kirkallen143
Famous Member
IF you remember from my lengthy post before, the IAB is the idle air bleed on top of the carb. They are the ones on the outside edge of the carb, the brass bleeds.
Stock on a 350cfm carb, they measure 0.070". If you decrease their size they will make the idle/transition richer. They are a fine tune adjustment, only.
Bill will have to answer for the brazing of his throttle blade holes.
Kirk
Stock on a 350cfm carb, they measure 0.070". If you decrease their size they will make the idle/transition richer. They are a fine tune adjustment, only.
Bill will have to answer for the brazing of his throttle blade holes.
Kirk
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