Need Quick advice on header problem

[HorsesNHogs]

Hello every one. I need some advice.
heres my problem: the clifford dual out headers I bought and waited almost 2 months to get will not fit. the headers hit the starter. Now clifford says it is because the remanufactured, replacement starters use a larger case. OK, regardless the headers don't fit. Now my car is at the muffler shop with the old manifold and exhaust on the floor and I cant get the new stuff in.
What solutions have others used in order to use the clifford headers? or am I the only person with a 42 year old car and a replacement starter.

I thought about sending clifford their headers back and ordering from FSPP like I was going to in the first place, but they are STILL out of stock.

I read the forum post about 'mini' starters, but they are expensive. Is there other options that will work with the Clifford headers?
Clifford even suggested I heat and bend the headers they sent me! REALLY!
Please offer suggestions, I need my car back and I don't want to have to pay the shop to simply put back in the old crap I wanted out in the first place.
thanks
GJT

 

[CoupeBoy]

There was just an article on here a while back about somebody with a very similar issue and the solution was to bolt it up, run the motor until it got hot, and then bend/tweak the header ever so slightly to clear the obstacle. But I can't find it now, it was only a month or so ago.

And about rebuilt starters using larger cases, that's a bunch of horse pucky, they are rebuilding OE starter cases, not building 'new' ones.

-ron

 

[CoupeBoy]

I guess I should have just searched a little bit longer
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52757

-ron

 

[flash_point01]

I can remember reading the post that coupeboy is referring to and it working with much success. I assume though you can't even fit them up there? If this is the case what is the clearance, or lack there of, between the headers and starter? I can remember reading either on the site or in the falcon hand book about needing to bend or pound the headers for clearance. With the vast array of tools at the muffler shop I’m sure you guys could figure some way to get that clearance. Heat then bend, keep in mind it only works once. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

 

[jahearne]

What kind of headers did you get?

I was thinking about getting the shorties for a Bronco.

 

[HorsesNHogs]

I got the clifford dual out for a 66 mustang, they are different from the bronco, I THINK.

Now as for the starter casing, Why would someone at Clifford feed me this crap. Why would a company that sells headers designed for this specific model not KNOW there is a problem and warn a buyer about it or better yet FIX IT, if I can heat them and bend them, shouldn't they be capable of it as well? They have been selling these things for over a decade that I know of, how is it this is not a more common problem/complaint?

my guys at the shop are trying a few different starter options. not sure what yet. I will let them know about the heat and bend technique, sounds like a easy fix. BUT we should not have to do it, I will let Clifford know my feelings tomorrow. The labor on this is going to kill me! but what can I do now, bend over and bear it!
thanks for the tips. I will post my final results and out come with clifford when I am complete.
GJT

 

[rommaster2]

I'm not sure if all manufacturers use the same but my original starter is the same size as my aftermarket one so who knows perhaps clifford is just BS'ing in general.

 

[CoupeBoy]

First off I've never bought anything from Clifford and cannot comment on anything they sell, nor have I called their tech support ever, my following comments will be generically why I think you are being treated this way.

Now as for the starter casing, Why would someone at Clifford feed me this crap.

If they can get you off the phone, they can go home, also if they can shift the blame why not?

Why would a company that sells headers designed for this specific model not KNOW there is a problem and warn a buyer about it or better yet FIX IT

They may only have one or two header types and if they can claim it fits a larger number of models then they can sell more of them to a wider demographic. If it happens that it is not 100% fit on your particular model then you can create your own 'work around', plus most do-it-yourselfers will just 'handle it' so if you ask me they have done a fairly decent job of targeting their audience.

if I can heat them and bend them, shouldn't they be capable of it as well?

I'm sure they could but that would probably make problems for another model car, so why would they expend their energy if there is no net gain?

They have been selling these things for over a decade that I know of, how is it this is not a more common problem/complaint?

I think this particular statement/question is a matter of people not being able to widely communicate about customer service. Many of the FordSix members came from the old Clifford message boards, and I'm sure that for years they deleted posts about their shoddy product in an effort to keep the company name shining. Plus how many people in your neighborhood do you know that have put on the same header? The only real way of getting these issues out for people to talk about them is just as you have done by posting your problem and asking for solutions then having others with similar (or the same) issue respond so that you can determine if your problem is a 'one off' or if it is an unspoken epidemic.

my guys at the shop are trying a few different starter options. not sure what yet. I will let them know about the heat and bend technique, sounds like a easy fix. BUT we should not have to do it, I will let Clifford know my feelings tomorrow. The labor on this is going to kill me! but what can I do now, bend over and bear it!

I wish you the best of luck with the shop.

thanks for the tips. I will post my final results and out come with clifford when I am complete.

I look forward to hearing how it all plays out.

-ron

 

[ludwig]

Just a thought, but if the starter interferes with the header, how is he going to start the engine to heat the header if he can't bolt it up?

 

[CoupeBoy]

1. He never said that the interference was so tight that both could not be bolted up at the same time.
2. Or maybe it's a manual and he can pull start it. But then how will he know when the header has been modified enough to clear the starter?

I never claimed to have all the answers, otherwise I'd have to change my title to 'Tech Support' :roll:

-ron

 

[66 Fastback]

I believe that line of rebuilt starters being a different case is pure B.S.
At $30 for a rebuilt one in some cases, they cannot afford to pay for a new case, replace bearings and brushes, re-assemble inspect and test.
The profit margin is not that great.
Doug

 

[jahearne]

I'm assuming you have a standard 200 block and not a 250 or a later model low mount 200.

That sucks that this is going to end up costing a bunch more money that planned. When you say other starter options are you guys thinking of going with a mini high torque starter?

 

[HorsesNHogs]

coupeboy, your replies are greatly appreciated, as are all the advice I recieve from this great group of people on this site.

Heres the thing about the headers, they are advertised as"HEADERS" 1964-77 Ford Mustang & Square Body w/ 170/200 cid" its the same block, same starter position and a fairly narrow field, so not too much for universal fit. I believe they know of the problem and choose to ignore it.
I agree with you that most of us are do it yourselfers who will just make it happen, and that complaining about it does not fix it.
But for Clifford, it is way too easy to fix or let the buyer know there is a starter fitment issue.

Heres the fix my guys at the shop used. With the headers off the car, they heated to offending area with a torch, then banged it flat with a big hammer. My favorite two remedies for things I want fixed. (fire and big hammer!). After the #6 tube was flatten out a bit, and the number 5 as well, so it was not so close to the starter wire post. The headers fit and bolted up with the starter in place. OH YEAH, there was also a problem with the number 3 tube, or really with the header bolt next too it. we had to bang it too just so the bolt would go into the header. Not a problem with UNIVERSAL fit here, just shoddy workmanship and lack of testing.

with all this said and done I am happy with the results, the sound is awesome and the duel trumpets look great. But I DO NOT recommend CLIFFORD HEADERS. the extra labor trying to fit, refit, and readjust killed my budget. CLIFFORD should have fixed this before shipping.
Good thing I did not pay extra for ceramic coating!
I am not happy with Clifford. I will not be a repeat customer.
thanks guys for you help and advice on this. HEAT and BANG thats the fix.

 

[CoupeBoy]

Sucks with the extra $$/time that had to be invested to make this work, but glad to hear it's back on the road.

Just one question though...Why are you still reading the forum when you could be out enjoying it?

-ron

 

[HorsesNHogs]

Ron,
GOOD question, Why am I not our enjoying it? well, 1 its storming like crazy down here in Georgia right now and 2 its been a while since I surfed through the postings and there is r eally some good stuff here

rest assured I will be out tomorrow, loving every minute of it.
GJT