New Head Gasket Advice - 81 Ford Granada GL 3.3L 200 6-Cyl

[tony1963]

I am installing a new head gasket on the old Ford. It was using some coolant last fall and now when you fire it up, it has a definite miss and smokes/smells like coolant.

Pulled the valve cover and there is coolant laying on top of the head, under the valve cover.

I have read about milling the head for the new gaskets and that will require washers under the head bolts, right?

What if you don't take much off the head. Will performance difference really be noticeable? If so, where do you get the hardned steel washers to put under the head bolts and how thick do they need to be?

I really appreciate advice from the experts here!

 

[Anlushac11]

The original factory head gaskets were steel shim gaskets that were about .020" thick.

Most of the aftermarket composite gaskets are about .055" to .060" thick.

The result is your compression ratio drops and you lose power. Our motors are not powerhouses anyways so losing more power doesnt help.

Most guys use a composite head gasket like Fel Pro or Victor and then mill .060" off the head to make up the difference and keep compression ratio roughly the same.

Once the heads are milled the head bolt will bottom out in the hole before it compresses the gasket properly. What happens is you torque the head bolts down properly and you think all is good and a few days later car acts like its got a blown head gasket because its not sealing properly.

The answer is to place some hardened washers you can find probably at any good hardware store in the parts bin and place under the bolt heads to prevent the bolts from bottoming out.

In my humble opinion the best option is to go to Classic Inlines site and buy a set of head studs and a head gasket. You wont need to hunt down washers and studs provide more clamping force than bolts.

http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=28

 

[JackFish]

Edited....

 

[JackFish]

If you want a steel shim gasket PM me.

 

[Asa]

i got my hardened washers at Lowe's, you just need Grade 8 washers
make sure you get some anti-seize between the washers, bolt, and head, don't want a false torque reading

what i did was screwed about four or five bolts all the way in, used a caliper to figure out the depths of all, then averaged that, figured out the thickness of the head (once again, caliper), then got some washers and checked the thickness of them, between the washers and the compressed thickness of the gasket i had plenty of elbow-room with it

 

[JackFish]

I've always wondered about something, and now is a good a time as any to ask-why not just grind the end of the bolt a little bit?

 

[wallaka]

Might bugger up the threads a bit. There's no risk when you just spend a couple bucks on washers.

 

[Asa]

Might bugger up the threads a bit. There's no risk when you just spend a couple bucks on washers.

put a die on it (from a tap and die set), cut the threads, then round the edges a bit, then back the die off of it, then thread it back on a couple times

voila!



edit: personally, i'd be worried about the heat generated from grinding it off, so i guess i'd use a hacksaw
random thoughts

 

[Gene Fiore]

If you go with the head studs from ClassicInlines, just be aware that the left front most stud may interfere with the water pump impeller. You may need to shorten that stud just a tad so it will clear...and don't forget to use some sealer on this stud as it protrudes into the water jacket.

 

[JackFish]

OK. We're milling around 50, 60 thou off the head to compensate for the new head gasket. That's about 1/200 of an inch. That's not very much metal.
The head bolt doesn't need to be any much more shortened than that, does it?
I guess I'm saying using a hacksaw would ah....well, you fill in the metaphor.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Tony and All:

There is no need to use washers under the head bolts If you only mill the head the difference between the OEM steel shim head gasket and the new head gasket. For example; a shim OEM gasket usually measures .025". The compressed thickness of a Fel Pro composite gasket measures .050" for a difference of .025". So a mill cut of .025" will maintain your OEM specs and CR. of 8:1.

Asa's system of measuring hole depth is the simplist and best, to determine the need for additional measures to avoid bottoming out the bolts in their holes. Hole depths vary- straight from the factory- and who knows what machining has been done previously? Measure twice- cut once. Either washers or shortening the bolts will work.

Hey Tony- as long as you have the head off and disassembled for machining, I'd suggest that you have a valve job done; adding a three angle seat and back cutting the intake valves. You'll find that the valve job gasket set is the cheapest way to go to get the head gasket and all the other gaskets you will need. The head gasket set also includes new valve stem seals.

FYI- the new composite type head gaskets do a much better job of sealing then the OEM shim gaskets.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David

 

[tony1963]

Thanks to all for the advice. To be on the safe side, I will go to Lowes and get grade 8 flat washers that fit the head bolts. A little space won't hurt. I'll coat the washer with red grease to not interfere with torque.

Do any of the head bolts need sealer on the threads?

I will definitely have a valve job and new valve seals, too. My local auto parts store says that the Fel-Pro complete gaseket set is actually cheaper than the head set alone.

Also, you can reuse the head bolts, right? They're not the stretch kind, are they?

 

[Asa]

Thanks to all for the advice. To be on the safe side, I will go to Lowes and get grade 8 flat washers that fit the head bolts. A little space won't hurt. I'll coat the washer with red grease to not interfere with torque.

Do any of the head bolts need sealer on the threads?

I will definitely have a valve job and new valve seals, too. My local auto parts store says that the Fel-Pro complete gaseket set is actually cheaper than the head set alone.

Also, you can reuse the head bolts, right? They're not the stretch kind, are they?

reusable, yes
thread sealer on the passenger front (i believe, can't remember though)

 

[Gene Fiore]

Yes, as stated above, sealer on the front passenger head bolt. It protrudes into the water jacket.

 

[tony1963]

So the only head bolt that floats in a water jacket is the front passenger RH side?

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Tony and All:

As long as you're going to have to mill .025" to get CR back to stock 8:1, and as long as you plan to use washers under the head bolts you might as well mill off another .025" to increase your CR for improved mileage and increased power. The additional .025" won't cost that much more, but the increase in MPG and power will be noticeable. You will still be able to burn 85 octane regular gas with no problem.

Then bump the initial advance 5 degrees over stock specs and enjoy!

Just a thought.

Adios, David

 

[tony1963]

I have most of this torn down. My friend is coming by next weekend to help with head removal.

This car has a huge catalytic converter at the mouth of the exhaust dump. Looks to be 4 inches in diameter. That, along with the whole head pipe, is going to have to come out, too.

I've sprayed all of the bolts on the exhaust manifold with Blaster. The outer two are really tight. I might pull the manifold and the head as a unit and get the machine shop to separate them. I don't want to bugger up the casting where the outer two manifold bolts connect.

While this is out, I am going to ask the machine shop to "make" the air pipe that goes into the manifold. It is crusty but not leaking that I know of. I can't find a factory replacement so I'll ask if he can make one.

What sized hardned washers do I need for the head bolts?

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Tony:

The washers for the head bolts are a 7/16" flat washer. Measure each one and find to verify their thickness before installing.

It is a good idea to have help in freeing and lifting the head off the block. The exhaust manifold and quick burn cat add to the weight and to the awkwardness.

This would be a good time to get rid of the of the '81 exhaust manifold and the attached quick burn catalytic converter. there are several reasons for this. 1st is that a 27 year old cat that is old technology is likely not functioning up to par. 2nd- a '68 vintage exhaust manifold with a 2" exhaust system will run cooler, be lighter and give you more power. I'm not sure what you are refering to "ask the shop to "make" the air pipe that goes into the manifold." Is this the exhaust head pipe that comes out of the cat?

Keep it coming!

Adios, David

 

[Asa]

What sized hardned washers do I need for the head bolts?

if i remember correctly, the bolts are 7/16ths, so you'd need 7/16ths washers
once again, just grab one of the bolts and take it with you into Lowe's or Home Depot, or wherever

it would probably be a good idea to figure out the piston depth as well
to figure that out, once again get out the calipers, then measure the top of the block to the top of the piston with the piston at Top Dead Center, that'll be necessary to know to fully compute the compression ratio

lots of stuff to do, but it'll be nice when you get her buttoned up and you know it's all done correctly

 

[Anlushac11]

Would it also work to put the piston at top dead center, lay a metal straight edge across deck surface and cylinder and measure distance between top of piston and the bottom of the straight edge with a feeler gauge?