Not merely off the beaten path...

FloridaRustang

Active member
I probably shouldn't even posit this here... but it's as good a place as any, since the idea came out of further research for one of my off-the-wall ideas (I've forgotten which one, now).

I think it was sleeve valves I was looking up when I stumbled across the Diesel Two-Stroke. With direct injection, it's much more fuel efficient compared to gasoline two strokes because you put in fuel after the chamber's closed. Not only that, but they have an exhaust valve, rather than port and have to be fed via forced induction (read: super- or turbocharger).

Anywho, I've referenced the Miller Cycle before -- several variations have been tried. Mazda actually produced one. Most common method is to hold the intake valves open into the compression stroke (Mazda did it for 20%), effectively reducing the combustion capacity of the engine (3.0 liter becomes a 2.4 liter) but maintaining the expansion capacity of the whole, thus being more powerful than the 80% yet more efficient than the 100%. Real problem, and why you really can't pull it off with a conventional carb, is reversion in the intake manifold. But the main idea is to extract more usable energy from the expansion instead of literally blowing it out the tailpipe.

Two-Strokes are notorious fuel suckers. Heck, for every two revolutions, they get two intake charges, compared to a four-stroke's one. Of course, they tend to be smaller, too. What you really get is power-to-weight ratio at the expense of lousy fuel efficiency.

But I think we can clean it up with a Diesel Two-Stroke using the Miller Cycle.

Huh?

I looked for anyone trying this and no one is saying a word. I assume no one else has thought of it (and it may be obvious why).

To set up, imagine two cylinders, either on the same crank or on sychronized cranks, so that the pistons are both at TDC or BDC simultaneously. The first cylinder (combustion cylinder) has an intake port towards the bottom, like a normal two-stroke, and an exhaust valve, like a normal diesel two-stroke. However, the passage from the exhaust valve dumps directly to an intake valve on the second cylinder. The second cylinder (expansion cylinder), in addition to the intake valve, has an exhaust port at the bottom and an exhaust valve at the top. An overhead cam operates the valves. A supercharger pushes air through the intake port.

So...

At or near BDC, the intake port is open, the exhaust valve is open, and the supercharger pushes clean air into the cylinder until the port is closed, at which point the exhaust valve also closes.

One cylinder's worth of air is compressed.

At or near TDC, diesel fuel is injected into the cylinder, spontaneously combusting and expanding all that air, pushing the cylinder back down.

Now here's the trick: Go ahead and open the exhaust valve. The charge expands into both cylinders (yeah, the second one might be a smaller bore, dunno yet) until the intake port is opened on the combustion cylinder and the exhaust port is opened on the expansion cylinder.

Now at BDC (and really at every BDC), excess exhaust pressure is relieved throught the exhaust port, and fresh air comes into the intake port, until the ports are both covered.

The exhaust valve on the combustion side and the intake valve on the expansion side are both closed, while the exhaust valve on the expansion side is opened to eliminate pumping losses of the remaining exhaust in the expansion cylinder.

Absolute lunacy, but what do you think?
 
Two Stroke Gas isn't nearly as dirty as it once was.
Take a look at the current large outboard motors by Evenrude or Mercury. They are beating the 4 strokes on emitions and economy with the use of direct (in the chamber) injection.

If they weren't so expensive, I think someone would have put one of these light weight power heads in a car by now.

John
 
I remember reading in an old Popular Science magazine from the 1950's about a similar engine on a Puch moped that used two cylinders together to take advantage of the expansion of the exhaust gases. It wasn't supercharged or injected though. Don't give up, it just might work. Maybe some of the engineer guys will tell us why it won't work.
Joe
 
I saw a Ford Festiva fitted with an Orbital engine not so long ago. isnt that just a modified 2-stroke motor?
 
I'll have to look into the direct gasoline injection, if they're using it on the two-strokes. That almost totally takes care of the dirty aspects of the two-stroke.

I've seen the Orbital stuff, I don't remember right off if they use two- or four-stroke. Actually, I think they've done both. IIRC, direct gasoline injection is their big thing.

From everything I'm reading, direct gas injection actually puts gas ahead of diesel in almost every category. But then, I also read that US diesel is the worst diesel sold on the planet. Apparently, the stuff they use in Europe is of higher quality, which is why there's a higher percentage running diesel in Europe. Fewer emmissions, which the US producers just can't do. I imagine it would put the price out of reach compared to gasoline.
 
Your basic concept has been done in steam engines. Triple expansions were pretty popular turn of the century in boats. The second, and third pistons would be bigger because to keep the forces balanced, your charge is at less pressure, hence less force per area. Make the piston bigger to compensate...
 
This isn't the same as multi-stage steam. With that, the idea is that once the work has been finished in the first cylinder, you pass it to the second to get more work, and then the third, sequentially.

In my idea, you compress and start the combustion in one cylinder, but expand in both, simultaneously. Closer to Miller Cycle or Atkinson Engine.
 
Supercharged two-stroke diesels have been used in some combat vehicles, mostly foreign. The combination of simplicity, high power output, and ability to use low-volitile fuel make them ideal for tanks, earth movers, bridge launchers, etc. I'm not sure if they also incorporate a Miller cycle strategy, but I'd be surprised if it hadn't been tried.
 
Didn't the Germans use a diesel fueled aircraft engine that had two pistons in each cylinder in a "delta" configuration? I believe it was a two stroke with supercharging, IIRC. Very fuel efficient as it eliminated thermal losses through a cylinder head. I remember reading about it many years ago but can't remember what it was called, can't remember much else about it. I think it was used on some long range patrol aircraft, maybe the Focke-Wulf 200?
Joe
 
C'mon, those memory banks can't be that rusty, guys. All GM's "Detroit Diesel" truck/tractor/marine motors for 30+ years were supercharged 2-strokes. When emissions tightened for new diesels in the late '70s, GM had to add turbocharging and intercooling to the intake also, just to kill off the emissions. Turns out that all those 'Jimmy' blowers had been doing was to help get the exhaust evacuated out of the cylinder so incoming air could fill it for a powerful combustion. BTW their mileage was terrible, compared to a good Cat or Cummins 4-stroke.

There's certainly room for further development there; GM probably just didn't see an immediate return of profits would come out of it. Even just a little squirt of propane into the intake air would have cleaned up the engine a bunch. Electronic controls on diesels were basically unheard of back then; today most new stuff is computer actuated 'drive-by-wire'. Lots of new technology to harness.

Carry on! Cheers.

J.R.
 
Oh, yes, I am quite familiar with the "Screamin' Jimmys". Lots of those have been used in logging/construction equipment. They aren't as durable as a good Cat or Cummins either, but have a good power to weight ratio. Around here they cost less also and are cheaper to overhaul. A mechanic friend of mine calls them "Oil slobberin' Jimmys". They built them in a large variety of sizes and power ratings. Actually a pretty good industrial engine.
Joe
 
About two stroke diesels, I came across this at one point :

Speaking of big engines, how about this one??? It's a massive Sulzer diesel, and it makes about 98,000hp at 100rpm. From left to right, the engineers put the huge bearing shells into the block. Then they lower the massive crankshaft. Then the ten cylinder block is flipped over and the cylinder sleeves are fitted. Finally the engine is ready to be fitted to a ship. Please note the size of the people in all the photos, and also the steps inside the crankcase in the 2nd pic!

Some more information on the engine - The Wartsila NSD (Sulzer) RTA96-C two-stroke diesel engine is the most powerful and most efficient piston prime-mover in the world today.

Bore - just under 3'2" (965mm), Stroke - just over 8'2" (2489mm).

Available in 6 through 12 cylinder versions (all inline).

Engine weight exceeds 2000 tons in the 12 cylinder version (the crankshaft alone exceeds 300 tons).

Point of maximum continuous power is 89,640 HP (66,844kW) at 100RPM with the 12 cylinder version.

Point of maximum fuel economy is 53,244 HP (37,704kW) at 90 RPM.

The 12-cylinder engine exceeded 100,000 horsepower during overspeed testing (all of 101.5 RPM!) while under test at Japan's Diesel Union works (who built the first engines and from who these pictures are taken).

Fuel consumption at maximum power is 0.278 lbs/HP/hour (BSFC).

Fuel consumption at maximum economy is 0.260 lbs/HP/hour.

At maximum economy the Sulzer engine exceeds 50% thermal efficiency (i.e. more than 50% of the fuel going into the engine is converted to power).

For comparison, consider that automotive and small aircraft spark-ignition engines have British Standard Fuel Consumption figures in the 0.40-0.60 lbs/HP/hour range and 25-30% thermal efficiency.

Caterpillar 3516s consume roughly 0.42lbs/HP/hour of diesel (unknown thermal efficiency).

http://www.billzilla.org/othercars.htm

Would 89,640 HP at 100RPM be considered streetable? :wink:

Of course, one piston wouldn't fit in my Mustang...

BTW, from my research all diesel two strokes have forced induction.
 
Lazy JW":15rkv6ra said:
Didn't the Germans use a diesel fueled aircraft engine that had two pistons in each cylinder in a "delta" configuration? I believe it was a two stroke with supercharging, IIRC. Very fuel efficient as it eliminated thermal losses through a cylinder head. I remember reading about it many years ago but can't remember what it was called, can't remember much else about it. I think it was used on some long range patrol aircraft, maybe the Focke-Wulf 200?
Joe

Yes, Joe. It was the Jumo 206, a supercharged vertical inline-6 cylinder, 12 piston, opposed-piston 2-stroke, rated at 1200 hp. An "opposed-piston" engine has two crankshafts located at the top and bottom of the engine (in the Jumo design), with the pistons forming the combustion chamber in the middle as they come together at the top of their simultaneous compression strokes. The intake ports are on one side of the block while the exhaust ports are on the other. The two crankshafts are geared together at the front of the block to drive the propeller.

Interestingly, I read a while back that this engine still holds the record as the most fuel efficient piston aircraft engine ever built, and is admirably light, as well. The all-up weight of the 206 was listed as just 1.4 lbs/hp. At that rate a Ford I-6 200 CID engine would have to make more than 300 hp at 1800 RPM...woo hoo!!! ;)
 
54 Ford,
Thanks for the refresher. My Grandmother used to say that my brain was a storehouse of useless information. I suppose she was right, but it is interesting useless information :)
Joe
 
AHHHH Jeepers, I just gotta add my $.02.
Supercharged 2 strokes used in military equipment, mostly foreign?
How about M-113 apc's? They run 6v-53 detroits, built since 1965.
Or the m-109 self propelled arty piece? 8v-71 detroit built since...well forever! haha.
Yeah there's LOTS more. Heck the new stretched variant of the M-113 which is a ADATS carrier platform(air defence gunnery on top) has a turbo/intercooled detroit.
What about the AVGP,(armoured vehicle general purpose) built in London Ontario Canada at the detroit plant, many variations, all detroit powered.

And on and on and on....... :lol:
 
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