o2 sensor wide spectrum for tuning query

[sdiesel]

fellas,
tell me how you have used an o2 sensor for tuning an engine. i am using the ford efi collector tubes and efi cast manifolds with factory bung placement
on a new engine with a carb.

on ebay there seem to be a lot of different sensors but none describe themselves as wide spectrum. my research tells me that a wide spectrum is more effective. what years approximately did wide spectrum become industry standard.

Im gonna post this also in a different section so begin forgiveness if you read it twice but i'm casting a wide net here.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, not super clear on all your questions, but here are my thoughts:

There is a good guide to where a wideband sensor should be installed here: http://www.wbo2.com/lsu/lsuinstal.pdf
It should be noted that narrow band sensors can live in places wideband sensors can't and my experience supports this.

A wideband sensor setup can be more useful in tuning, depending on what you are trying to achieve, and how experienced you are at other tuning methods. If you are using basically the stock efi manifolds and y-pipe, then I assume you're not running a turbo. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are trying to tune your eninge at an AFR significantly different from 14.7:1 (assuming gasoline), then wideband would help.

I wouldn't say that wideband sensors have become an industry standard, in the sense that everyone uses them, however if what you are trying to ask is what make/model cars use them and where, the best source I've found for that info is here: http://www.megamanual.com/PWC/lsupur.htm

Be aware that you need to have a wideband sensor controller either built-in to your engine computer, or stand alone in order to run a wideband sensor. Also, you need to have the correct wideband sensor for your controller.

Finally you asked how we have used o2 sensors. I won't list all of my setups over the years, but my current one is an old LM-1 controller with a bosch wideband sensor, behind a turbo, in a custom made exhaust, installed roughly 10 degrees above horizontal and about 40" downstream of the turbo. This setup is per the install manual I posted a link to above.

 

[country fried 6]

you asked when "did wide sectrum sensors become industry standard", if by that you mean OEM manufactures? the answer is never. narrow band O2 sensors are still the industry standard.

 

[thesameguy]

Narrow band O2 sensors are "rough indicators" - they will tell you if you are lean or rich, but not much more detail than that. You cannot truly tune an engine with a narrow band - they are simply too imprecise. Wide band sensors are very accurate, providing much higher resolution in their readings than a narrow band. You still can't *fully* tune an engine with just a wideband, but you can get very very close.

Very few cars come from the factory with wideband sensors, but some do. Multiple VAG products do, along with a few Honda, Toyota, and Nissans. I'm sure every brand has at least a couple cars with a factory wideband. They are virtually always the forward sensor (before the cat), and are distinguishable by their 5-wire connector.

What cars came with them is kinda moot, though - the price for a new Bosch 17014 is only about $50, so there is little reason to go used. The expensive bit is the controller, which you need to make use of one. If you plan on tuning a car, you are probably best off just buying a wideband kit - something that has the sensor, controller, and gauge in one compatible package.

FWIW, if your goal is to just tune a standard six with a standard carb and standard ignition system, you probably don't need a wideband. You will simply never have adequate control over the variables (that is, mixture and timing) in order to "fully tune" the engine. IMHO, a narrow band gets the job done reasonably well.

 

[sdiesel]

This is really important information and i thank you all.
i will follow the links and study , but you have given me a start .

the bit about a carb being to rough a mixer to get full benefit from a wide band rings a bell with me. i wondered about that. the systems i see are generally involved with the newer FI systems, also I see where Speed bug has his 40 inches down stream from the turbo. which means i can put a bung as far back as the collector tube on the EFI factory down pipe it looks like.

 

[thesameguy]

Wideband sensors and narrowband sensors require different placement in the exhaust stream. Wideband sensors generally want to be 18+ inches away from the engine, and 24-36" is closer to ideal. Narrowband sensors don't mind being tucked up closer, and if you've got a one-wire, non-heated sensor it really needs to be close/hot to be effective. I use a heated Bosch narrow band, and it's about 6" off the collector. It has no problem staying warm there. That placement would be way too hot for a wideband.

 

[sdiesel]

accordingly , the wide band sensor dont require as much heat to register?
I can mount it quite a ways down stream and get a really good picture.

Now. i am in the midst of a course change, as is so common in hot rodding . i am going to fire the new motor on propane; A system for propane has come my way , and my end goal is to have a propane / turbo system i may as well start off the system with propane.

thusly i wonder if the wide band sensor will register oxygen in propane exhaust

it also might mean i could sell one or two FISH carbs if there is any interest

 

[country fried 6]

the type of fuel does not matter, an O2 sensor just measures the amount of un-burned oxygen in the exhaust stream.