Question about Ford 1970 6L 4.1L 250cui 155HP

Ken Van Accolyen

New member
Hi everybody,

Now i have a question for u guys maybe u can help me because im new in it, i already did to my engine:

-engine compleet overhauled
-cillinders drilled at 0.20
-flathead pistons 255cui V8 Ford
-Electronic petronix ignitor 2 and towerflame ignition
-Header short chrome 2x3pipes to 1pipe
-2sidepipes

he drives good with this but want more power...

Now i have bougt here an Holley 500 CFM carb & 2V/4V Oval Alloy Air Cleaner
& ircleaner breathercap & carb adaptor but hood dont want to close :(

What can i best do for upgrading my 250 cui engine ?
witch head & intake do you guys suggest ?
does someone here have it in second hand ?
...

need some help !

Thnx

ken
 
Nice cam and some headwork, everyone recommends the Classic inline cams, 264/274 hyd cam, what you need to do is ask the question of do you want outright power etc, is it a man or auto car, for what you already have done, the cam and matching headwork eg springs for the lift and some basic porting and milling the head 50-60thou yields good results, then put the carb you have on. Would be a nice street engine, you will need to change pushrods or add washers or get custom pushrods, comp will be up in the mid 10’s so factor that in to what fuel you use. Hope this helps, sure some else will tell you similar, i had a nice stockie of a 250 log motor in another wagon, i reckon my current 200 outdoes it in all areas, especially fuel economy and driveability and this car is 4 years older. Just some useless info lol
 
Gene Fiore":1yp1e6oq said:
Ken Van Accolyen":1yp1e6oq said:
bmbm40":1yp1e6oq said:
Direct mount the carb.

? :)
Direct mounting a 2 bbl carb is a process where the log intake is machined to directly accept the carb without an adaptor. This will solve the hood clearance issue and also produce more power and torque over using an adaptor. This requires the cylinder head to be removed.

http://classicinlines.com/proddetail.as ... D200%2DCHS



Thnx man ! and when i do this direct mount of the carb(i: i will feel allot of difference with the stock & how is it with the fuel consumption ?( i still need an adapter ? because the feet of the cfm 500 is to big tou mount on it )
and do u have pictures or a site where there are pics off the direct mount, so i can see what i must do... ?

greetz ken
 
8) when i installed an autolite two barrel on my old 66 falcon, i used an adapter rather than a direct mount, and i felt the difference in power available. the direct mount should be even better. as for fuel economy, it didnt change. with either the two barrel of the stock one barrel, the car got about 19-21mpg.
 
Ahh,Gent! I know your of Flemish decent, or else you'd have called it Gand or Ghent!

All your questions were actually answered in viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70514&p=540842#p540842,but I assume it may have been complicated by the difficult English Dutch language barrier.

All my best friends are of Dutch decent, if you need help in Dutch langage, please call and I'll ask one of them to help. One is a nurse, the other a Bicycle Mechanic. Each has helped me out in the past. My co-worker spent two years in Gent with her husband who is financial supervisor.

Note the following.

Ken's engine has the 4412 500 cfm carb on the later head with the float bowl mounted front ways. Irrespective if its traditional sideways mount, or like it is below, he has a height problem of 4.5 centimeters, about the extra height of a 250 engine over the 200 engine. Stock 200 3.3 short deck is 19,82 centimeters tall from crank to head gasket, stock US 250 4.1 is 24,05centimeters, so the engine height is 4,23 centemeters more. Take 4,5 cm's out, and you have success. '

See below



1.The 250 is a very tall engine, and the 69 Mustang got major engine mount changes to even fit the 250 into the 69 Mustang turret. Kens1970 Mustang has the same limitations. I know all you want is the hood to close over the Holley 500 cfm carb. What your asking is difficult, but not impossible. To do it, you have to machine off the air horn, and run a remote filter to the existing hood scoop.

The air horn gets machined off like what was done on the factory Six Pack Mopar carbs

510-0-4365-1.jpg


If the 2-bbl without an air horn is placed where the stock 2-bbl its is now, you'll get 4.5 cm of height off the carb, and be able to shut the hood. You can then make a carb base that seals against the underside of the hood, and run a remote filter of the orginal Holley 2-bbl carb base you have.

2. Your stated goal is to just get the carburettor below the hood line. , then its better to cut off the choke horn, and install a Percy's Adjusta Jet,
PercysAdjustaJet.jpg


It just requires the removal of the plastic tang




and have a machinist or model aircraft technician make a linear servo to richen the carb two turns or 9 jet sizes when starting.

Most 250's run a bigger than 60 jet size, which gives a 12.5 or 13.5:1 cruise air:fuel ratio. You then have a servo shift that 2 clockwise turns, and the jet becomes a 69 size, which allows you to get a 9:1 air fuel ratio on start up.

See this and click to enlarge



3. The direct mount conversion method in your case does not improve hood clearance, as to do that, it depends on the adaptor you have . In your case, the adaptor is as shallow as it can be, and the limiting point is the rocker cover to float bowl. The direct mount conversion method only offers a substantial increase in power and torque, over the two to one (2-1) type carb adaptor which has been evident on all Classic Inlinesdyno tests, not improved hood clearance in your case. It is impossible for a direct mount to liberate the 4 cms needed, as the carb float to rocker cover is the pinch point.

4.I've grown up around all versions of the short and tell deck 200 and 250 engines. I used to ride to kindy as a four year old in a blue 200 XR Falcon station wagon, and learned to drive in an alloy head Falcon 4.1 Utility vehicle. The issue is that because of the weight increase due to engine height, and the need to have a extra strenghth diff and stronger transmission over the early 200, the 250 six is only 9% more powerfull than a 200, revs just as poorly or worse, and uses more fuel, but when modifed correctly, the 4.1 is one of the best engines you can get. Ford USA did no favours to anyone with the 250, and the only glimmer of hope was the changes made to make it the 170 HP 2V 250, and now, the Classic Inlines head. The engine combination with a proper 2-bbl with a log head can still make 205 hp, though. See Crosley's direct mount Falcon modifications. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56639&p=440076#p440076. Can't do 15 sec ET's at 88mph unless you've got 205 hp.



logheadport2-1.jpg
logheadport-1.jpg




Gene did the same stuff with his 250 Maverick, yet the time taken to make it run as fast has been a lot longer. The point is the 250 is a subborn engine, but treat it right, and its as landmark a long stroke engine as a 455 Pontiac, 455 Oldsmobile, or 292 GMC or Chevy inliner. Those engines above there weight catagory. Ford Australia kept the 250 stroke and almost as tall block because it gets results. The 200 always gets better results when in earlier ligher weight combinations. Each engine has its pros and cons. If I had a Taunas, Cortina, pre 1971 Falcon, a lightweight Aussie XE or XF Falcon I'd have a low deck 200 everytime. If I had a Classic early Mustang, Maverick, Fox body or later X-shell, I'd go 250 everytime. Its up to how much room and weight there is. Those early Falcons were very light,which is why an XR Falcon Wagon can run a little 385 pound 200 engine better than a 470 pound 250.
 
"...you'd have called it Gand or Ghent..."
the 'gent from Ghent' (sorry)
8^0

Boy, that machined log in the very last pic sure looks thin in the northwest & southeast corners. No wonder MPGs had troubles with his before going efi & abandoning the project for a bronk (now that's a real vehicle)...

I didn't realize yer history (w/the cars we love) went back like that, X. Pretty Kouwell! I have similar history with the slant 6 but was a driver-in-poverty as college student. 'Necessity being mother of invention' (actually 'copy' as I had no automotive theory just a screw driver & wrench) and no money to hire a mechanic when in need to get around the country or into class. Not much difference between the 2 @ that age, 'is all "just around the corner".
 
Thanks man for the info ! but it is like chinees for me All the people in Dutchland have like an V8 so they cant help me :p
So what do i need exactly to do to fit the carb holley 500cfm en close the hood ? witch adapter do i need & witch aircleaner ? i just want to know the exact points i need to do to make it work and fit ...

Thnx !

Ken
 
The eight or so options have been stated elsewhere. Not sure I can post them all now, here's a try:
1) lower the engine (Mavrick mounts &/or towers, may B an early stang w/250 as well?)
2) create a "low rise carb" as X states, or thu other means
3) use a 'low rise" air cleaner
4) flat mount the carb by machining the log (w/o an adaptor)
5) use a carb that is low (Autolite 1100, 1101, Carter RBS)
/and/ all the above.
 
Ken Van Accolyen":1j2f6o1a said:
Thanks man for the info ! but it is like chinees for me All the people in Dutchland have like an V8 so they cant help me :p
So what do i need exactly to do to fit the carb holley 500cfm en close the hood ? witch adapter do i need & witch aircleaner ? i just want to know the exact points i need to do to make it work and fit ...

Thnx !

Ken


All you need is some Area 51 Technology!. You have no choice but to use the stuff you have, your under carb adaptors you have, the carb you have, and take the carb to a machinist and have him shave off all of your existings carbs choke air horn and carb mounting flange so it ends up like the ones on the outer Chrylser 340 and 440 six pack Holley carb below.
510-0-4365-1.jpg


Then use an adjustable main jet to operate cold start enrichment.

There are two types, but I'd recomend the one the Mazda Rotory guys use, sourced from Tom McNeilly tomcn@earthlink.net for US $150 dollars excluding post and packaging.These are throttle leaning devices used for light aircraft

Tom McNeilly
14001 East Williams Field Rd.
Gilbert, AZ 85296
International phone number is +1-602-899-7613

He's in Arizona, USA. Almost nothing any good comes from anywhere else! Hear that Azcoupe?

Northwest Aero Products also has them available. They are at
13812 179th Avenue SE
Monroe, WA 98272
International phone number +1-360-805-8183
Call displayed telephone number to ask for respective email address of Northwest Aero Products.

These are throttle leaning devices used for light aircraft


Details
Here is some information about the Holley mixture control kit. It is best suited for a two barrel 350 or 500 CFM Holley carburetor. However, the unit has been successfully used on large four barrel carburetors. The mixture control WILL NOT fit other makes and models of carburetors! The unit replaces the fixed main jets with a rotating valve that is remotely operated by a push pull cable. The unit will go from total idle cut-off to overly rich by rotating the shaft, while the engine is running. Installation is very simple with step by step instructions provided.

Due to the outrageous cost of materials and the inflationary state of our economy,the price of the kit has recently been raised to $150.00.

The mixture control body is CNC machined from 6061-T6 aluminum which is alodine treated, the shaft is stainless steel and the screws are plated steel.

The first picture is what comes in the kit. The mixture control plate is in the background with the accelerator pump extension arm., power valve block off plug, and installation bolts in the foreground. I also include a set of three gaskets which are not shown.

The kit
TomMcNeillyIMGP4877.jpg


An example fitted to a 4-bbl carb with its choke air horn still attached
TomMcNeillyIMGP4878.jpg


Then fit a duct to a remote filter where your hood scope is. I'll send you fabriction diagrams using two K&N filters which should give you the use of the stock hood without any alterations.

If you need this in Dutch, PM me, and I'll have my co worker Johanas or Pieter translate this for you. I have a Fox Mustang, and anyone who has a 1965 to 1970 Mustang with a 250 or 300 init, or a Fox Mustang with a 250 in it, this is the solution you Tall Six fans have been waiting for.
 
Thnx ! So this i must do to make it fit ?
Can u just tell it in steps to be sure and the link what i need?
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
...

Why do i need the main jet ? Its like 200 euro when its with me ...

Im sorry im really a noob in this :) thats why i really wanna now what in need and where i can find it.
En to be sure it fits and works ...

Best regards


Ken
 
1. Order the Carb Leaning Kit from either of the two suppliers. It uses the stock carb jet, and can run the Percy's Adjustajet as well. So you can jet it to any level you like, but you need to still run the stock Holley jet with the Carb Leaning Kit. You can warm it up by hand or by your own cable
2. Perform the Dodge Plymouth 340 OR 440 Six Pack Holley 2300 R4144/R4175A/R4382A-Front, R4365A/R4383A-Rear modification as listed above.
3. Await further instructions for the remote air cleaner. I use Nissan LD 28 Diesel K&N Remote air filters, good enough for 200 hp and small enough to fit where the hood scoop is.

That's it.
 
xctasy":3fvbx5i2 said:
1. Order the Carb Leaning Kit from either of the two suppliers. It uses the stock carb jet, and can run the Percy's Adjustajet as well. So you can jet it to any level you like, but you need to still run the stock Holley jet with the Carb Leaning Kit. You can warm it up by hand or by your own cable
2. Perform the Dodge Plymouth 340 OR 440 Six Pack Holley 2300 R4144/R4175A/R4382A-Front, R4365A/R4383A-Rear modification as listed above.
3. Await further instructions for the remote air cleaner. I use Nissan LD 28 Diesel K&N Remote air filters, good enough for 200 hp and small enough to fit where the hood scoop is.

That's it.


thnx for evertything !

can u friend help me in dutch plz what i all need to do ?? :p
 
Back
Top