re-rebuild

edgewood bronco

Well-known member
600 miles and I've torn down my engine. 200 six bored 40 over. Giant bronzy flakes in the filter. No. 4 connecting rod is toasted. Second cam bearing also is boogered such that I can't get the cam out. I hope this will be a good opportunity to learn a thing or two and improve a few things as well. I noticed a couple things on the teardown (unfortunately I cannot tell you what brand of parts I was using. It was a fairly basic kit I sourced locally from my first machine shop):
Main bearings all looked like I just put them in. Filter was doing its job I guess. I did notice that the wear wasn't entirely even. There's a light aluminum color, and when that's rubbed off, it's a shade darker silver underneath.
Rod caps all looked good except for number 4, which was in the copper/bronze layer with chunks missing. That journal has a lot of chatter marks on it and is slightly brown in color.
Piston side of rod bearings were worn a lot more, bronze coming through in places. I get that there must be a lot more force on that side of the bearing because it's absorbing the shock of the combustion, but I'm a little concerned at that amount of wear already.
Second cam bearing had some nice gouges in it. Not sure why one would fail and the others not. Unless it was due to debris from the no. 4 connecting rod failure. but they're really not that close to each other. Maybe close enough.
This engine smoked after 500 miles, and I don't see how it could be related to bearing failure. When I took the headers off, cylinders 2 and 5 were wet and oily in the exhaust port. The other 4 were dry with light black carbon deposits. Makes me think 2 and 5 were causing the smoke, but why only 2 cylinders? I looked at the rings and I had them installed correctly. (dots on the correct side) What else can I check?
Looking ahead, what should I plan on doing to fix this? I figure replace all bearings, lifters, oil pump. Should I have them re-hatch the cylinders and put new rings in? Anything in the head?
Thanks.
 
the first thing you need to do is figure out why the bearings blew up after only 500 miles. it sounds like oil starvation, probably from junk in the passages since the damage is limited to a few bearings. after that check the bearing clearances and keep the good bearings replace the bad ones. but check the bearings over carefully for damage you may have missed the first time.
 
Did the rotating assembly turn freely by hand after you assembled the short block?
 
I took it to the machine shop yesterday. The thrust bearing was worn five thousandths, which he said was perhaps due to the pilot bearing not being installed deep enough in the back of the crank, which lead to constant pressure on the thrust face, starving it of oil and introducing flakes into the system that way.
He also thought that perhaps the oil rings I received weren't the right size, causing those two cylinders to smoke.
Basically, it's going to be a total rebuild. They'll be reconditioning the connecting rods, which I didn't do before, but should have had done. That hopefully will address the wear issue on the combustion sides of the rod bearings.
The only way I'm ahead is that I've got my carburetor and distributor figured out. And it's all fresh in my mind so I'm getting pretty good at working on this engine.
Had other plans for that money though... Ugh.
 
Make sure the shop hones the bores correctly for the type of rings.
Plasma Moly take a very slick 500 hone & then plateau hone after that.
Cast rings 320 area.
I would not advise chrome faced rings unless you run the engine in a very dusty area.
I have had excellent results from sealed power plasma moly rings.
They were broken in after running the engine for just several minutes.
 
Thanks for that tip. I've got a good experienced shop, but will be sure to make sure the hone matches the rings. would you say the sealed power plasma moly rings are what you'd recommend?
Now that it's back in this state of disassembly, what cam would you recommend? Mine sounds a bit too much like a hot rod, I'd like better vacuum and more of a stock idle. Ultimately though, I'd like the best combination of economy and performance. I was running the 264/264/110 cam from the Classic Inlines site.
Thanks!
 
Might be a good idea to install a set of ARP bolts in the Rods since you will be rebuilding them. On the Cam I think a good choose would be a cam like the Comp Cams 252 pulls from 500 to 4500 RPM or a Scheider 248D both of these would give better vacuum and pull strong from idle on up, there are a few others in that range too. Good luck :nod:
 
Get in touch with Will-Does10s & see if he has the 264-264@ 112 L/C cam. Or contact Clay Smith cams & get one right from them.
Call Schneider & get a cam in the 260's range with a 112 L/C.
 
best of luck!
how many degrees will U advance the cam?

any other solid findings on the failure?
Pro diagnosis?
 
I went with a Comp cam and installed it to their specs. I chose it based on recommendations on this thread and my machinist's. Nothing too aggressive because I want the vacuum and don't want it to sound like a hot rod. I don't remember off the top of my head what it's advanced.
Never did figure out a sure reason why the connecting rod bearing failed, but the rods have been reconditioned this time. New lifters, new cam, new oil pump. Everything plastigaged to spec. I did measure to make sure there was enough room for the input shaft of the transmission to sit neutral in the pilot bushing and not press the crank forward all the time (which was what the machinist thought might have been a possible cause). Not sure what else I can do but put it together and turn the key. It's distinctly less fun doing this the second time. Should have it running by the end of the week!
 
"...input shaft of the transmission to sit neutral in the pilot bushing and not press the crank forward all the time..."
hummm, interesting - that would blow a con. rod bearing...

So the 1st problem (created the failure) was started there?
The smoke was secondary/later result? Or do you think that was unrelated (improper rings, etc)?

Thanks,
good luck this time around, sorry for the added costs (time, $, loss of use).
 
The thought is that it would starve of oil the thrust surface of the thrust bearing, causing it to lose flakes, and those flakes took out no. 4 connecting rod bearing, but we'll never know for sure. After seeing the wear in all the con rod bearings, It was clear that reconditioning them was a definite oversight on my part, and I'm glad to have that done now.

Smoking was unrelated, as far as I know.
 
OK, becoming more clear 2 me.

The "thrust", on the cam right?
flew (them) up & oil 2 threw flakes up.
OK…
All from the tranny's input shaft pushin too much on the crank...
the pilot not pressed deep enuff for that crank shaft 2 lay neutral…

Thank you for the lesson, again sorry 4 the losses.
Sounds like she'll B fine again real soon!
 
not quite. No. 5 main bearing is also the thrust bearing for the crank. It's the one that has the wide edges to it that go down over the bearing 'carrier' (for lack of a more appropriate term) in the block and up over the sides of the cap. That's the one that was overly worn on the thrust surface.

Just needs coolant and I'll crank it up tomorrow after work!!
 
that was fast, you're quick
best o luck!
 
It's burning gas again. Started immediately. Cautiously optimistic. I broke in the cam and changed oil. Battery was flat, so nothing more. Nothing obvious in the filter, so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope the second time's the charm...
 
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