Should I run an intercooler?

[Fordman75]

I'm building a 54 F250 4x4 ( 300/np435 4sd ) for a work/tow vehicle and I'm considering running an Eaton M112 supercharger or a turbo. I don't plan to run much more then 7-10 pounds of boost.

I will most likely be running this truck on E85. I'm just wondering if an intercooler is going to be needed with running mostly alcohol?

 

[Anlushac11]

I would supercharge and see about getting a air to air intercooler.

The E85 will allow the engine to run cooler and the higher octane rating will help with detonation issues when under load.

The intercooler will lower inlet temps which will further reduce chance of detonation.

 

[Fordman75]

The reason I was hoping I could skip the intercooler is this truck is going to have a one piece tilt front clip. So I'm working with a limited amount of space. It's going to be real tight fit lengthwise with just the radiator.

So if I need an intercooler it'll have to be an air to water intercooler. But did I mention it will probably be a blow thru carb set up? So that makes the intercooler set up a little more difficult to set up.

 

[Anlushac11]

In that case I would not use a intercooler.

But I would also consider a insulated fuel cooling can.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Moroso/747208/15051/-1


Spraying the cold fuel into the hot intake air would work similarly to water injection and would lower the air charge inlet temperature before it goes in the cylinders.

 

[Patrick66]

what about a top mount intercooler, like on an STI?

 

[66Sprint6]

Top mounts are better than nothing at all...but not much better. I had one on the SVO and we called in the interheater. I got a HUGE front mount right now on the 66 and it is AMAZING. Before it, you could notice a difference after punchin it one good time and heat soaking the piping. Check out an air to water intercooler if you cant get an air to air to work out
Matt

 

[wallaka]

I'd probably run a water injection setup if no intercooler. It'll give you a little insurance on a hot day, or when you get on it too much. It helps a lot with detonation issues and is said to help fuel economy as well.

 

[Fordman75]

So I take it everyone still recommends an intercooler even with the engine running on 85% alcohol?



If I want to run an air to air intercooler I've got two choices.

The first choice would be to mount it flat under the front of the engine with some kind of scoop on the bottom side.

The second choice would be to mount it in front of the body low and behind the push bumper that I'm going to run. I'd have to add some cutouts and some kind of grills to the bumper to get air thru it.

I didn't really want to run an air to water intercooler or waterinjection unless I abesolutely have to. This truck is going to have enough plumbing the way it is because of the hydraulic brake booster and on board air system. And I don't want to deal with having to constantly refill a water tank on a water injection set up.

 

[MustangSix]

I'm building a 54 F250 4x4 ( 300/np435 4sd ) for a work/tow vehicle and I'm considering running an Eaton M112 supercharger or a turbo. I don't plan to run much more then 7-10 pounds of boost.

I will most likely be running this truck on E85. I'm just wondering if an intercooler is going to be needed with running mostly alcohol?

Actually, instead of an intercooler you'll need a hopper from the bed to feed dollar bills to the gas pump! A gasoline powered F250 gets what, 10-12 mpg when towing a light load? Run it on E85 and you'll get 6-8 mpg? Blown or turboed, it'll get maybe 4- 5 mpg on E85?

While I'm convinced E85 is a perfectly good fuel with potential to make a lot of power, I'm not convinced it's an economical alternative to any other fuel.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

two words, water injection.

plenty of room under the hood to mount a tank.

 

[66Sprint6]

Water/Meth injection is a good idea and simple as well. If you still wanna go with the air to air, mount it like you said useing a scoop of some sort and think about maybe puttin a puller/pusher fan on it to help get some air thru it.
Matt

 

[69Falcon]

Actually, instead of an intercooler you'll need a hopper from the bed to feed dollar bills to the gas pump! A gasoline powered F250 gets what, 10-12 mpg when towing a light load? Run it on E85 and you'll get 6-8 mpg? Blown or turboed, it'll get maybe 4- 5 mpg on E85?

While I'm convinced E85 is a perfectly good fuel with potential to make a lot of power, I'm not convinced it's an economical alternative to any other fuel.

Slight thread hijack, but if you're building the motor to run only E85, then the mpg losses shouldn't not be as bad. With only 7-10 lbs of boost, he can still bump his compression ratio up quite a bit from the gas-typical 8.5:1 for better efficiency. I recommend he checks in with Does10s about compression ratios and boost on E85.

 

[hasa68mustang]

Top mounts are better than nothing at all...but not much better. I had one on the SVO and we called in the interheater. I got a HUGE front mount right now on the 66 and it is AMAZING. Before it, you could notice a difference after punchin it one good time and heat soaking the piping. Check out an air to water intercooler if you cant get an air to air to work out
Matt

I am with Matt, on my first setup I ran no intercooler, I was running around 7psi and I had no problems, the carb hat used to get VERY hot though. On my new setup I picked up a pretty large front mount and after just normal driving and beating on it a little bit the piping before the intercooler was hot to the touch, too hot to keep your hand on where as after the intercooler felt cooler than your body temperature. However you have alot different space issues to work with than I did.

 

[Fordman75]

I'm building a 54 F250 4x4 ( 300/np435 4sd ) for a work/tow vehicle and I'm considering running an Eaton M112 supercharger or a turbo. I don't plan to run much more then 7-10 pounds of boost.

I will most likely be running this truck on E85. I'm just wondering if an intercooler is going to be needed with running mostly alcohol?

Actually, instead of an intercooler you'll need a hopper from the bed to feed dollar bills to the gas pump! A gasoline powered F250 gets what, 10-12 mpg when towing a light load? Run it on E85 and you'll get 6-8 mpg? Blown or turboed, it'll get maybe 4- 5 mpg on E85?

While I'm convinced E85 is a perfectly good fuel with potential to make a lot of power, I'm not convinced it's an economical alternative to any other fuel.

My brother has a 98 Caravan flexfuel with a 3.3L that he runs nothing but E85 in. He ran a tank of gasoline thru it to compare the mileage. The difference was 2 mpg's. The flex fuel vehicle is a compromise. My engine is going to have higher compression to take full advantage of the E85.

No matter what I do to this truck it won't get great gas mileage. This is going to be a heavy truck. I figure it will get around 10 mpg unloaded and 6-8 towing. But that's why I'm getting a 45 gallon tank for it. And I'm leaning more towards a turbo then the supercharger. It'll be simpler to setup and if I keep my foot out of the gas I should get better mileage just driving around then I would with the blower.

Is E85 the perfect fuel? No. But it will allow me to run more boost and compression then I could with pump gas. Add to that the price of E85 around here is $0.75-$1.00+ a gallon cheaper then 93 octane gasoline. It's still worth the lower MPG's to run it. The only thing I don't like about it is the smell from the tailpipes.

two words, water injection.

plenty of room under the hood to mount a tank.

I'll pass on the water injection. I don't want the extra plumbing and another tank to keep full. Let's say I'm on a long trip and forget to check the tank. It goes empty and no more chemical intercooler.

No there isn't plenty of room under the hood to mount anything. With the tilt front clip the only area I'll have to mount anything is the firewall and with the brake booster/mastercylinder and the steering shaft on the driverside and the heaterhoses, ignition/electrical parts on the passenger side most of the mounting area is already spoken for. I'll have plenty of room in the back of the truck but like I said it's not something I want to deal with.

Water/Meth injection is a good idea and simple as well. If you still wanna go with the air to air, mount it like you said useing a scoop of some sort and think about maybe puttin a puller/pusher fan on it to help get some air thru it.
Matt

The more I think about it I'll probably go with the air to air intercooler and mount it out front behind the push bumper. It'll add some more $$ to the cost of the project but I suppose it'll be better then hurting the motor.



And just incase you haven't seen it in the truck section here's the truck I'm building. I've got a long ways to go before it'll be on the road.

If you want more info on the build the post is here.

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51809

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

you don't use much meth on the injection. a couple gallon tank should provide enough water for a weekends worth of towing (like 1000 miles worth) it only injects when you are in boost. it could be setup to only inject ant pressures over 7psi or so. also you will get alot of cooling effect from the E85 fuel. really with that low of a boost level as long as you are not tuning to be on the edge of knock I would think the fuel would handle most of your cooling.

prob a 10:1 staic compression and then up 10 psi on it along with the E85 and it will prob be fine.

as far as locating the tank.....sicne it is a pressure system you could place it under the bed along the frame, under the front seats/cab, ont he tilting front end, etc.