something went wrong

[rustywagon]

I was parking my car, put reverse in gear, something snapped and engine died. I can't start it, the car is "free" in all gears, resp. you can push it free in D. The distributor doesn't spin when I turn starter on. Not sure what happened. I am dissembling front to see if timing chain snapped, while removing radiator the transmission liquid started to drip from tranny cooling line.... Any advice/tips appreciated! Thank you, Michal

 

[bubba22349]

I was parking my car, put reverse in gear, something snapped and engine died. I can't start it, the car is "free" in all gears, resp. you can push it free in D. The distributor doesn't spin when I turn starter on. Not sure what happened. I am dissembling front to see if timing chain snapped, while removing radiator the transmission liquid started to drip from tranny cooling line.... Any advice/tips appreciated! Thank you, Michal

Hi Michal, yes it dose sound like the timing chain isn't working, could be slipping due to bad or stripped cam gear, since the Distribitor dosent turn. You can get some caps for the auto trans cooling lines or use a piece of hose and a couple of hose clamps to contect them together. Yes with engine not running the auto trans through the torque converter (no direct connection) so there is no resistance to the car to be able move freely in any gear. With the one exception of when the gear selector is in the park position which locks the output shaft of the trans. Good luck

 

[rustywagon]

I was told transmission fluid present in line to radiator is ok as it runs through it. I though it's vice versa, hope it's right. I removed timing chain cover, lower sprocket was broken and chain was apart. Bolts on both sprocket were loose. I installed new came (old was broken) few years ago, we tightened the bolts to specs, not sure why it got loose.....
Did it damage the valves? If there's possibility, how do I check easiest way?
I need to remove oil pan to get all metal pieces, do I have to remove torsion bar?
Thank you, Michal

 

[rustywagon]

just for clarification - when it snapped, it was just one, short sound. Not any "hammering or ongoing sounds" after. Like it just snapped...

 

[bubba22349]

Yeah the cooling lines won't drain out that much I just don't like getting oil or fluid dripped on me when am under a car. Don't think you would be able to damage the valves. Ok did you remove the crank and cam gears and look at the woodruff keys in the drank and camshaft? It may of broken one of them so if you didn't you need to check them, due to the cam gear bolt being loose. The crank gear has the Dampner pushing it back against the crankshaft tightly so the more likely one is the camshaft key. I have also seen a couple broken cams in engines too, though not in a Falcon six. Good luck

 

[bubba22349]

One other thing after you get all those timing gear set parts inspected for any damage. When your confident it's ready to be reassembled use some "Lock Tite" on that cam bolt before you torque it down to spec that will help keep it from coming loose again. Good luck

 

[drag-200stang]

Something to check when you get the sprocket off, check to see if the cam spacer is behind the cam pin, it goes on with the inside bevel toward the cam journal , not to be confused with cam retainer plate...If that is not there it will cause problems.

 

[chad]

must ck 4 all valve related events now? Almost re-degree the cam?

 

[rustywagon]

No damage on pin, or woodruff key. I haven't noticed any cam spacer, unless it's on picture, please check. There was thin large metal "shield", i guess that was to prevent oil splashing?.
I removed valve cover and will remove head, I need to replace head gasket anyway.
How do I find out of engine is O.K.? Should I test pressure in cylinders before I remove head, or visual check on valve is O.K.? Any other recommendations?
thank you Michal

 

[chad]

y remove head?...no need 4 that in my mind...

 

[drag-200stang]

Oil slinger is normal...I cannot tell for sure if the spacer is there or not in that pic...Can you take a pic that shows the pin , it should be right behind it.

 

[rustywagon]

there was play in bigger sprocket, bolt was loose. I guess it vibrated and chain/sprocket broke. I replace the timing set years ago, torqued to specs, not sure why it got loose.
i took more pics. I don't think there was spacer, unless it was on broken sprocket and broke with it.
I need to figure out if engine is ok, what I need to do?

 

[bubba22349]

Your missing the cam spacer ring (wedding ring) that "drag-200Stang" was talking about in his above post. No wonder the cam gear got loose it can't tighten up against the front of the cam right. Did you change cam lately or in the past? The camshaft thrust plate show lots of wear too and will need to be replaced. Plus you will have to find that cam spacer ring that goes behind the cam gear. If it's been missing for two years there could be other damage inside the engine. I would recommend that you pull head and then the lifters and cam and look them all over good. The Distribitor gear might also be damaged or broken from the cam moving around. In the below link is a Enginering Drawing that WsaII "Bill") made to show what cam spacer ring measures. Good luck

Cam Spacer Ring Drawing
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77502&p=596642&hilit=Cam+spacer+ring#p596638

 

[rustywagon]

I don't remember if we put in the ring, or not.
I have some mechanical background, my friend has pretty good knowledge of cars (he works on all his) and my neigbour who is car shop owner (spec in vintage cars) was around when we worked on car.

Wouldn't be against logic/common sense or impossible to put in cam without that ring? I am not saying we couldn't miss it, but we bagged and labeled each part when pulling engine apart.... If the bracket would rub against the plate I am sure we wouldn't miss it..... couldn't it snapped?

 

[bubba22349]

Well you would think it's logical however this seems to be a recurring problem that's common with many of the new camshaft installs were the ring gets left on the old camshaft. Since the ring goes on behind the round pin in the camshaft it needs to go on first before the pin gets installed see link to picture showing this install location behind the round pin. So if you only changed the timing chain set then the ring might of been left off by someone else before you. Good luck

Cam Spacer Position
https://www.fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 14#p598519

 

[rustywagon]

makes sense.
I will remove head tomorrow, what do I look for? meaning possible damage
Thank you.

 

[bubba22349]

Check that the cam can turn easy in the block and using a light that all the lobes move up and down, also watch if the Distribitor rotor is turning too. Examine all of the camshafts lobes and its Distribitor gear for any damage or uneven wear to them, also check the Distribitors driven gear for any wear or damage, look at each of the lifters bottoms for wear too. Be sure to keep the lifters all in their order as you take them out then if you want to try reuse them they got back on the same lobe. Check that all the push rods are still straight by rolling them on a flat surface. Post some pictures of all the parts that show any damage or unusual wear if you can. Do you have any friends that might have some Ford 200 core engines for those missing parts like the cam spacer ring and a replacement for the damaged thrust plate, although those thrust plates still can be bought new? Good luck

 

[rustywagon]

I checked all, looks good.
I dropped the pan to get the pieces out.
I need to re seal it. Do I have to pull the pan to put new seal in?
Looks like I would have to remove torsion bar and lift the engine up to get pan out, unless there's a trick.
thank you for help, Michal

 

[bubba22349]

congrats that's good news that everything checks out. Which seals are you talking about the oil pan gasket end seals, the front cover seal, rear main seal? Yes the oil pan should be removed to clean out any trash or debris, check the oil pump pick up screen is clean too. The one trick to remove pan while engine block is still bolted in is to unbolt and remove the round tube belly bar connected across from the lower control arm mounting under the engine. The other way to do it is unbolt the engine mounts and rasie the engine up enough so you can get the oil pan out. Good luck

 

[rustywagon]

I meant oil pan, I dropped it to remove all rest of metal pieces.
Do I actually have to remove the pan to put new seal in or is it possible to do it just dropped... ?
If I have remove the pan completely, I'd prefer to remove torsion bar. Do I need special tool to put it back?, or it's just take it out, place it in process...
friend told me it's pita to put torsion bar back..., but I am not sure about it.
Thank you. Michal