Swapping a rochester 2b onto my 67 200ci?

[Bradbutlernc]

I just picked up a 67 falcon, all original 200 I6 ofcourse. The stock one barrel carb is having some trouble, previous owner "rebuilt" the carb and the choke linkage works backwards, and the accelerator pump isnt working. The carb is just kinda worn looking with all the linkages and such and after doing research ive seen several 2 barrel swaps done on here and that looks like it could be a easier/cheaper/better way out than messing with the 1b. Ive got a nearly brand new rochester 2b that came on a 68 pontiac, 400ci. I assume its a 2gc model? I havent looked at it in detail in a while, but its in really good shape and i never had any problems with it on the car. Ive been looking at this adaptor here http://www.carburetion.com/adapt/adapt3.asp

first one on the page. To adapt the rochester 2b onto the 6. The linkage im guessing will need to be fabbed, which is no big deal. Ill use the stock breather from the pontiac 400 to go on it But is there anything else i need to worry about as far as swapping them out? Id like it to be reliable and easy to start, as my woman will be driving it too, 10 miles to work occasionaly. Im thinking about getting an electric choke conversion for the 2b if i can find one, maybe you guys can point me in the right direction with this?




Pic of the car for reference, 67 falcon 2 door. This is the only pic i have, the guy we bought it from took it but ill get some more detailed pics.

 

[CZLN6]

Howd yBack Brad:

And welcome to The Forum. Adapting the Rochester 2GC has not been reported here yet. So go for it and let us know. Years ago I did adapt a 2GC to a Chrysler six with mixed results. The problems were related to the accelerator pump and getting a big enough shot to cover initial take off. Once rolling it worked pretty good so long as I gently rolled into the throttle pedal. Given it's design it is not as user friendly in adjustibility as the Holley 2300s and Autolite 2100s usually covered here.

The other problem will be hood clearances. The adapter height plus the possibility of a taller carb and the Poncho air cleaner will likely cause hood clearance issues.

AKT your '67 autolite 1100, with it's Spark Control Valve, (SCV) is married to the stock '67 Load-O-Matic (LoM) distributor. The SCV sends a load sensitive vacuum signal to the vacuum advance only distributor. So changing your carb to a non-SCV carb will compromise the function of your LoM distributor Unless you wanted to upgrade your distributor to a later one.

The adapters at the bottom of the page look very interesting. I wonder how tall they are? Any Specs on them?

Keep us posted.

Adios, David

 

[Bradbutlernc]

I was reading about the distrubutor issue too. I wasnt sure if i had that setup though, guess i do. What all is involved in changing it to something like electronic ignition or a newer distributor? Im normally a GM person, so im still getting the hang of all this straight 6 stuff :mrgreen:



Do you guys think the best thing for reliability would be to just get a remanufactured single barrel, and leave it alone? If i need to fork out the extra cash thats not an issue, i thought itd be better for the engine to swap a 2b on though, i read somewhere that the rochester 2b carbs were some of the best ones to swap onto a ford six.

 

[rbohm]

8) if the adapters are the same height, the rochester 2gc should get you about 1/4" more hood clearance, and you will need all of that. i put an autolite 2bbl carb on a 66 falcon, and i had about 1/8-1/4" clearance maximum depending on what air cleaner i used. the rochester carb should do reasonably well on the six especially since you got it off a 400 ci engine.

as for the distributor issue, grab a rebuilt duraspark distributor from something like a 75 or later maverick, 78-82 fairmont, etc with the 200 six. when installing the dist, use plenty of assembly lube on the gear. you will need an ignition box and a wiring harness, i used the chrysler "orange" box, the next step up from stock, and an msd lll blaster coil. i used the chrysler harness. check out www.gofastforless.com for how to wire the chrysler box to the ford dist. it is an easy swap overall and works real nice.

 

[fordconvert]

I like the rochesters. They got hard to find, easiest place to find them was Mercruiser (boats). I guess there was some class of racing thats rules left those as the most desired carbs so even marine dealers had a hefty core on a rebuild. Duraspark distributor is likely the best combo of easy / cheap / reliable. You can then use either the dursapark module, chrysler, or GM HEI, or go all out and buy something like a MSD. Some diehard blue oval folks will get twitchy at this next part so I will try and word it carefully. There is a respected company called Davis Unified Ignition (DUI) that makes or modifies complete distributors for many brands and applications. Most of their distributors are compatible and interchangeable with the 74-8x GM HEI's. Our board sponsor Classic Inlines has them custom make one to be a direct fit on our 200's. I believe they now also have a customized Duraspark (ford) one available for those that cant stand to have any delco like things under their hood. They are not cheap but are quality hand checked (by people that know what they are doing) calibrated units.

 

[Bradbutlernc]

All this sounds somewhat complicated, like any new project i suppose. Like i said im just now getting into the straight 6 scene and im normally used to messing with small engines and gm motors. Ill have to get you guys pics of the rochester carb im talking about, i assume its a 2gc like i said before, came on a pontiac 400. Just like this carb http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BIG-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


Something else ive been looking at, at the local scrapyard theres an old ford F100 sitting there, mid 60s model it looks. Has a carb on it, different than mine though, mine has the fuel inlet in the front and the accell pump on the left side. This carb on the F100 looks to be in really good shape but i didnt see an accellerator pump on it or anything, and it used the old oil style air filter. On the side of the engine it said 242ci, was an I6 ofcourse. Anyone have a guess as to what this is? I may pick it up and put it on the falcon if it can be directly swapped on, the distributor mods and such are something id look into at a later date, right now i just want to get it drivable. Also yesterday i discovered some rust in her that i wasnt pleased with. Rust flakes come out of the vent in the drivers floor, and also the floor is rusted through in a spot, as well as the inner fenderwells in the front.

 

[shmoozo]

Something else ive been looking at, at the local scrapyard theres an old ford F100 sitting there, mid 60s model it looks. Has a carb on it, different than mine though, mine has the fuel inlet in the front and the accell pump on the left side. This carb on the F100 looks to be in really good shape but i didnt see an accellerator pump on it or anything, and it used the old oil style air filter. On the side of the engine it said 242ci, was an I6 ofcourse. Anyone have a guess as to what this is? I may pick it up and put it on the falcon if it can be directly swapped on, ...

Are you sure it said 242ci and not 240? So far as I am aware Ford never made an inline 6 displacing 242 cubic inches, but they did make a 240 cubic inch six that was used in some light trucks (and a few large passenger cars) for a few years beginning in about 1965. The 240 is basically a shorter stroke version of the 300 cubic inch six that was used in trucks from about 1965 until 1996.

I'm honestly not sure about what carbs were used on the 240's but I seem to recall that they may have had a mounting bolt pattern that was slightly wider than the ones used on the Falcon sixes.

Somebody else here might know for sure.

 

[Bradbutlernc]

the tag on the engine was from it was remanufactured i suppose, assuming it had been bored out a tad bit and equaled 242ci. Yes it was a 240 though, the carb on it looked similar to mine and was a good bit bigger, and looked to be in really good shape, no oxidation or rust on it at all. A friend of mine has the same carb on a 82 F100, 300 inline 6. His truck runs great with that carb, so im thinking ill try it using this carb, i know a ford guy thats great with rebuilding them so ill figure something out. Im gonna go to the junkyard and get that carb, rebuild it, and see if itll work on the 200. If not, ill just sell it on ebay or something. Id appreciate more input from you guys on this though.



Right now here are my options

Buy a reman single bbl from advance auto, around 130$.
Use the 2bbl rochester i have, buy an adaptor, and spend money changing the distributor, 30$ for adaptor + the cost of distributor and ignition parts.
Get this carb from the junkyard rebuild it and see if itll fit, or make it fit, and see how it runs. Around 50$


I have about 160 to spend on all of this btw.


What do you guys think? Im pretty sure the 2bbl and new distributor would make a good improvement in performance/reliablity, from what ive read, and im really leaning towards that. Right now the I6 pulls the falcon pretty good with the junk carb on it, and at WOT the carbs only open about halfway. I see nothing but improvement no matter which way i go.

 

[ASMART]

The carb on the 240 is very likely the same carb Ak Miller used in a Hot Rod Article in 68. It increased airflow and richened up the fuel mixture almost perfectly. Of course this was oin a 68 Mustang that didn't have the same distributor setup you have. If you can get that carb cheap you may end up with enough money left over to at least pu a huge down payment on another distributor. Let's face it, if your going to change the carb, the distributor hasd to go.

ASMART

 

[Bradbutlernc]

Alright, im definetly going to snag that 1b at the junkyard, looks like one of those weber ones you guys posted, i assume ill have to get some sort of adaptor or modify the factory one though. I have a buddy who works at oreillys that can get me all the distributor parts for cheap, so i may go that route but i dont fully understand the swap yet. Ive been reading and reading on it and i think ive almost got it, but it still worries me some. Some posts say i need to get the distributor shaft ground down or replace the oil pump? Also i have to cut a wire from the ign. switch? Im sure i can figure it out when i get to it but its worrying me is all.

 

[jamyers]

...Buy a reman single bbl from advance auto, around 130$.
...

I would STRONGLY recommend AGAINST this option. I haven't seen a 'remanufactured' carb from a parts store in 10 years that wasn't a complete mechanical abortion. I swear, they have drunk chimpanzees 'rebuilding' them with knives, forks, and spoons. Not that I have a real opinion on the matter... :roll:

On the other hand, I also really like Rochesters - simple and reliable. I wonder if you'll have to re-jet or anything since it came off an engine twice the size it's going onto.

 

[Frankenstang]

...Buy a reman single bbl from advance auto, around 130$.
...

I would STRONGLY recommend AGAINST this option. I haven't seen a 'remanufactured' carb from a parts store in 10 years that wasn't a complete mechanical abortion. I swear, they have drunk chimpanzees 'rebuilding' them with knives, forks, and spoons. Not that I have a real opinion on the matter... :roll:

On the other hand, I also really like Rochesters - simple and reliable. I wonder if you'll have to re-jet or anything since it came off an engine twice the size it's going onto.

+1...don't do the reman off the generic auto store shelf

I'd have to vote for the rochester experiment if you have the time and are so inclined

For DSII I'd check:
http://www.classicinlines.com tech articles, the small six tech sticky at top of this section, and in general would recommend a copy of

the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://falconperformance.sundog.net/

 

[Bradbutlernc]

Actually the rochester 2b i have on my 81 pontiac was a rebuilt one from autozone, about 300 bucks But its holding up good, 2nd one though. Accel pump went out on the first one.

 

[Bradbutlernc]

Went to the junkyard and got what i think is an autolite 1100...it only has one diaphram/accel pump though, the carb on it now has 2 accell pump arms/diaphrams. Would this be an issue? I dissasembled the carb already and its clean as hell, but im going to rebuild it. Its apparently a "ford model 1101" according to autozones diagram, but it looks like a autolite 1100 to me. What i dont get is the throttle linkage is on the back of the carb, so if i mount it where the float bowl is facing foward the linkage is facing the cabin, ill have to rig up a cable but theres no issue with that. What kind of carb does this sound like to you guys?

 

[jamyers]

I don't know if there's much of an external difference between a 1100 and a 1101. The 1101 is a bigger CFM carb that's desirable, but kinda rare. 1100/1101's are good carbs.

The second diaphragm is used on automatic transmission cars, to keep the throttle from slamming shut and stalling the engine. V8's used a dashpot for the same thing. I don't think it'd be an issue, only way to tell is try it and see.

To mount a 1-bbl as Ford intended, you need the Ford spacer/adapter plate that goes under the carb and often has heater-hose connections for carb heat. Yes, the throttle will be at the rear of the carb, operated by linkage either direct off an arm from the firewall, or through a bellcrank that pivots on a stud in the above-mentioned carb spacer/adapter, which is moved by the arm on the firewall. Clear as mud? :mrgreen:

Several pictures of throttle linkages in these threads:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=56967&hilit=1100+carb+linkage+pic
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23158&hilit=1100+carb+linkage+pic

 

[Bradbutlernc]

Youre right jamyers thats my mistake. The stock carb on the falcon has so much junk linkage on the side of it that it confused me. Id really like to get rid of all that and do a cable setup though. These 2 carbs look basically the same, except the carb on the car has an auto choke, and the carb i got off the truck has a manual choke, and only one diaphram/accell pump. I didnt see a gear shifter in the truck, it must have been that "3 on the tree" style trans i suppose. Like i said im new to this ford stuff :mrgreen:


Im thinking what ill do is spend the 15 bucks rebuilding the 1101 model carb, and see if i can find someone to rebuild the original autolite carb, ill check around on prices and see what i can find. Ill use the ford 1101 temporarily after i pull the autolite and see how that works out, hell i might just keep it. Tommorow im gonna get some diesel fuel, clean it up real good with my wire brushes and might whip out the dremel to it and polish it up, then pick up the rebuild kit and go to town on it. My woman will be driving the car too so i want her to be able to drive it safely, no stalling out in traffic and such. I also still have that rochester 2b in great shape, and can use that/convert the distributor if it comes to that.


Edit : i read up on the dashpot thing you were talking about, since it basically stops the butterfly from closing fast, i wonder if i could maybe just install a soft spring to counter act letting off the gas fast? Im sure i could rig something up. Let me know what you think about that.

 

[Bradbutlernc]

Rebuilding the ford model 1101 carb now. It was clean from the getgo but i wanted to freshen it up. Ill let you guys know how she runs when i get done with the rebuild, right now all the hard parts are soaking in diesel and im gonna finish cleaning them up tom. or saturday when it stops raining so much.

 

[jcom4179]

Do you need an adapter for the 2v Rochester? I was told there a bolt on.
Thank you
Jeff

 

[TrickSix]

If you do indeed have an 1101 carb - The 1101 carbs started out with a SCV, but by the late 60s they did away with them. The '69 1101 I have is set up to use an external dashpot (if needed) instead of the second diaphragm. You're going to need an adaptor to put it on your small log head too.

 

[TrickSix]

Guess I shoulda looked at more than the last date...