The best straight six?

So which automatic is it teamed up with? Since GM has no automatic better than the torqueflite, then this engine can't be better than the slant six/torqueflite.

Besides, that GM six only delivers the outstanding HP above 4500 RPM. Too high for most driving.

Harry
 
Don't confuse ability to work (torque) with speed that work can be done (HP)
The best cruise rpm would be the torque peak. The place were the engine has the greatest ability to work.
 
Yes, true, but you are still missing the point of the thread...the question "what was the best straight six/automatic transmission combination?" The new GM six ain't it! Posters are continually mentioning some pretty great engines, but failing to combine them with an automatic tranny and superimposing that mix over a history of many years to bear out the result.

Were it to be the engine alone I'd certainly choose the Ford six, even over the new GM, but not the tranny, hence the cruxt of the matter. Heck, the old AMC 258's would be a close second, but they didn't have the torqueflite either.

Harry
 
Well, it's all opinion anyhow. "Best" is relative, and depends on what you want it for. Power, dependability, whatever. Since I've got one now, the M3 engine is my new favorite. 273 ft-lbs, 340 hp, naturally aspirated. The CSL version has over 360 hp. AND it has a transmission that shifts for itself (well, I have the manual, but it is available). Getrag 6-speed box, with automatic clutch. Gearchanges take .08 of a second. Definitely the most powerful six I've ever driven.

But I wouldn't want it in a truck. Even though it does have over 225 ft-lbs of torque at 1800 rpm. Not too shabby for something that can rev to 8000 RPM.
 
I'm pretty late to this one but just in case anyone is still looking, did the 300 ever come with the 3 or 4 speed toploader? If so that would be a good choice for a hot rod or work truck.
 
The thread question was "What was the best straight six/automatic tranny combination. So, your top loader doesn't factor into this one.

Harry
 
ford fg falcon fpv f6 4L turbo 6 with zf 6 speed auto 415hp and 416ftlb's stock in a rear wheel drive family sedan dont think you can really go past it
the xf is unbreakable to to 800hp std from reports engine is a tune away from 500+hp
oh and it can trace its roots all they way back to a 144/177ci ford 6 from the early 60's
 
My "best" is the combo that got me started back in high school: 252 Nash twin carb/hydramatic. Ambassador. Dorky overachiever. Mobile bedroom. SNAP OUT OF IT
 
I believe that honor is held by BMW.

My memory is super foggy, but I could have sworn I heard on (ESPN) once that there was a BMW L6 running up near 1000hp's and was stout in the dependability dept.

I'm sure exotic fuels/turbos were used and whatever else to run that crazy amount of hp's for a 6 cylinder back in the day(70-80's?).
 
I would agree with the BMW I6s. those things are beasts. High power, and very durable engines. The thought has crossed my mind a few times to shove one of those into the stang...
 
No change since October 3rd 2007... :beer: Fords Falcon 4.0DOHC engine. Regards power and price, there isn't any better engine for the money in the world.

BMW engines could run to 1500 hp using a stock 318i 4 cylinder block and 16 vavle head. A F1 BMW engine had 1500cc, a destroked 318i engine, and qualification form on the F1 grid they had to be the best power producer ever. The BMW M1 with a six cylinder version of the BMW F1 engine did an easy 850 hp in procar racing, so it's certainly possible that a turbo 3.5 BMW M1 six could make 3000 hp if the components were up to 10 000 rpm.

But in context, just a little work on a stock 4.0 six with Chevy small block rods and forged pistions and Subaru piston rings with a really big turbo gave that 1500 hp DOHC Falcon six back in 2007. I think cylinder number one was resleaved, but that was it. 1500 hp at about 6500 rpm.

xctasy":2vbbsqgd said:
Fords Falcon 4.0DOHC engine. It's a Datsun at half the price engine. And the Nissan/Datsun L and R sereis engines were BMW at half the price engines.

It was nothing to get a stock Nissan 3.0 in liner and make 650 hp out of it with a turbo. A Nismo 2.6 GTR engine could go to over 1000 hp. Now, the Ford 4.0 eclipses that, with over 600 hp via a stock Turbo reworked, and 1500 hp possible.

No contest.

If Ford kill the 4.0 Dohc engine block, or fail to make a iron blocked Diesel derivative, I'll have to swap camps and work on Nissan engines.
 
Having cussed my way through several hours work on a modern OHC engine sitting crosswise in the engine bay of a modern little front-drive s#%*box has reinforced my long-held biases:

First, overhead cams are unnecessary and ridiculous in a street motor. These things go way back, but they seemed to get their marketing buzz in the Fifties when their supposed glories were extolled by gentleman-sportscar-enthusiasts in England with their open-back driving gloves and hired mechanics, and amplified by American writers for sports car magazines, particularly Ken Purdy, who assumed anything new from Jaguar or Mercedes had to be better than any cast iron offering from Detroit. These "experts" laughed at "monkey-motion" push-rods . . . while oblivious to the slapping and jerking and stretching of the mile-long chains, and later belts, that ran their overhead cams.Not incidently, these are the same kinds of folk who are always telling us how we ought to convert to the metric system with it's wonderfully convenient divisions by ten . . . and somehow fail to notice how useful it is to be able to work in fractions as our system so handily allows. But anyway, the subscribers to "Road and Track" and "Car and Driver", happy in their superior tastes over their neighbors driving the big sloppy Detroit barges of the day, lapped up the overhead cams and the swing-axles and mechanical fuel injection, as if they made any practical difference other than to add to service bills at the local dealerships. I say overhead cams are a marketing scam, as are most four-valve heads (but my pals with machine shops love you to buy cars with four-valve heads :rolflmao: ); pushrod engines are simpler, easier and in many cases far easier to work on, and will rev as high as any practical street engine needs to rev.

Second, front-drive cars with crosswise engines were and are NOT an advance in automotive design, dammit!! Especially now! Back in the Sixties and early Seventies, the Mini, the Austin America, the early 2 cylinder Honda coupe, (I owned the latter two), were okay because their engines were dead-simple and ACCESSIBLE, with no emissions crap, air conditioning, or other such impediments to tune-ups and service. But today this configuration is a disaster once it's out of warranty and you want to do anything to it.

I won't argue with you, and I won't change my mind, because these are not opinions but my own cherished prejudices. Everyone needs a few biases, and these are not required to be entirely rational nor to be defended rationally. Here's one more of mine; I detest golf, a stupid activity! I don't trust anyone I don't know who golfs, and have reservations about friends who golf. I can't imagine anyone with more than two digits of IQ being so enamored of golf as to watch it on TV or follow professionals around a course.

But I have to admit, one single thing of great merit has come from golf. The golf tee . . . the best temporary vacuum-hose plug ever :thumbup:.

Meanwhile, for best street six, I stand loyally with the Ford 240/300 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
I agree regards OHC fully. A 4 valve per cylinder pushrod head on a Falcon engine block would allow a Viper style variable cam system, and the power would be there, along with the shorter length. Last 2T Toyota with canted valve engine I had could have its head gasket changed without removing the carb and messing the timing. That's the sort of Falcon engine I'd like.

Meantime, I like the DOHC Falcon six in spite of its length of chain and its double knockers sitting up high in the front of the engine bay...
 
Remember "paradigm shift," the big buzz-phrase of some twenty or thirty years ago? Maybe it was contemporaneous with "The Tao of Physics" and "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and similar buzz-books that got lots of press but didn't hold up to an actual reading. Well, I have to say that even an old gearhead (not a computer hardware freak, but a gearhead in the older sense, with his hands smelling of actual gear-oil) could get his paradigms shifted by observing the effectiveness of such modern engine appurtenances as variable valve-timing and actuation, constant feedback and optimization of mixture and spark timing, performance exceeding anything from the muscle-car era . . . WITH fuel efficiency and WITHOUT high octane fuel and WITHOUT putting glop into the air. So you have to understand that it can be hard for an old man to uphold his grumpy biases in favor of anything and everything that was simple and easily-understood by home-tuners, in the face of the functional superiority of the new engine tech. So if I were building, say, a deuce coupe to take to the local Saturday car show with the hood off, I'd be hard pressed to choose between your highly-developed Aussie Ford six and an old Pontiac flathead straight eight that weighs three times as much and makes one-third the power.

Dang, at this rate I might find something else good to say about golf :wink:
 
smitty, While I agree on many points, I also look at how far engines have come. Part of it is the fuel and the oil, but part of it is the engine. 50 years ago, getting 250k miles out of a engine was nigh unheard of. Heck, @ 100k miles, most old engines were considered boat anchors. Now, if I don't get to 250k miles on an engine, I'm surprised. My silverado has 307k miles on the original block. Still as quiet as can be. doesn't burn oil. It's an LS1 block, and pushrod. What I love about that truck, it's actually easy to work on. Don't have to rip half the engine apart to change the water pump. Don't have to pull the engine to change a clutch.

However, my volvos, which were DOHC engines with FWD and a turbo, are royal PITA's to work on. Such a PITA that my 2nd volvo, with only 150k miles, it's starting to have a few annoying things that I'm going to sell the car because I don't want to work on it.

While FWD may not be a technical lead forward, I will say FWD generally is so much nicer to drive around in snow that RWD. Sure, I can do it with RWD, but why? But I guess that's why I have two toy cars, two commuter cars, and the beast. But at this point, I seriously doubt I will ever keep another small car past 100k miles again. My one volvo I kept to 250k miles with no problems. But once the problems come I'm going to start tossing cars. I LOATH working on FWD cars. Nothing about them is easy. And I generally enjoy working on cars, but hate working on FWD cars on anything but brakes and oil changes.

I'm not biased towards or against OHC engines. They are what they are. I just like the BMW engines for their performance. They are great little engines. But VTEC, and other stuff...just more things to break. However, I do LOVE efi. while carbs are simple, EFI is just too nice IMO. Get power and efficiency, all at the same time in all weather conditions.
 
I am coming to really dislike "new".

I especially dislike the modern marketing insistence that we all have more "features". Comcast comes in to my 91 year old dad's house with their miracle converter box for his TV; we don't know what it does other than make the TV harder to use. The installer hands over the new remote, with more buttons than a 747 cockpit, and starts explaining "features". Don't you have a SIMPLE remote, I ask; just power, volume, channel, and (especially!!) mute? Installer looks confused, says most customers like "features". I wonder.

Meanwhile, this POS laptop has gotten so flaky as to be nearly unusable. Yahoo and others seem to be "helping" me with a "feature" that speeds things up by making connections that I merely pass across with the curser, without my clicking any buttons. I don't want to be speeded up or pushed or anticipated or given unsolicited assistance on this miserable machine, dammit!! Shove your "features"!!

I wouldn't have a new car if you gave me one. I wouldn't have any car with airbags, which make me feel like there's a loaded gun aimed at my face, just waiting . . . maybe waiting for its own flaky moment of glory. I don't want warning buzzers. I don't want a car that does any thinking on its own, or one that takes actions on its own, such as the newest brakes that are supposed to save us from proximate dangers.

The Austin Mini of the 1960s weighed, what, 1400lbs? It was simple as sin, had no "features", used one of the crudest little pushrod fours of the time, could break any speed limit in the USA with ease, and got 40-42mpg.
The new Mini gets 23mpg, and weighs THREE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED POUNDS (I had a Dodge Dart that was twice as long and had a cast iron six, that weighed about that much). Oh my, but does it ever have "features"! And four valves per cylinder! Overhead cams! Computer-controls of everything!

Well, lah di dah.

The Ford big six is as modern as I want.
 
Hey, wait a minute. I have been responding to this thread as the notifications show up on my email list. I just click on that link and come straight here. What I failed to notice (and it would have been easy enough) was that this is the Hardcore Tech sub-forum. "Well, my "contributions" to this thread, of doubtful value even if they were made on one of the FordSix Social forums, are waaay out of line here, given the host's exhortation to, "Keep it hard core". I'm just yammering here, and now that I see where I am, it's very embarrassing.

My apologies to all. If the host would like to delete all my posts, good, or if I should go back and delete them, also good, except that I have tried to delete complete posts of mine in the past and been unable to do so. Let me know, and meanwhile I'm done adding to this thread. Again, sorry; should have paid more attention.
 
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