Timing Mark on Balancer Pully

[Anonymous]

Earlier this year, I installed a 1980 200 I-6 engine with AC compressor in my 62 Falcon wagon. To find enough radiator clearence I had to switch to an early short water pump and early two groove WP pulley. To retain the late model 3 groove bottom balancer pully to drive the AC, I mated the early WP and pully with custom built WP spacer to realign the belts. The early WP pulley is larger dia. The larger dia. WP pulley combined with the larger dia. late ballancer pulley, caused the two pulleys to kiss while rotating. To cure this, I ground a little bit off the edges of both pulleys until they no longer interfered. Long story short is that in the process, I lost my timing mark (groove) on the balancer pulley. Any ideas on a easy way to refind this important spot so that I can file in a new groove?

It all works great except that my only method for timing is the ear method. I know, I know, I should of thought of this before all of the timing mark was ground away. A simple grease pencil mark would have worked wonders. But you know how it is..... a late hour in the garage working on a project that is taking way longer than expected. The shade tree lamment

Thanks in advance,

Mike A

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI
One way is to make a TDC finder (piston stop).
Take an old spark plug take out the insides and install a bolt long enouff to stick into the cylender put a nut on it to hold it in place screw it into the #1 plug hole and then BY HAND rotate the motor untill it stops mark the dampner then rotate the motor the other way untill it stops mark the dampner. Now in the middle of the two marks it TDC.
Tim

 

[Anonymous]

Another way to find Top Dead Center disconnect the coil wire, pull the number one plug, and just hold your thumb over the hole while cranking. When you get a whoosh of air, stop. You are now near TDC on the compression stroke. I then take a piece of 1/4" dowel, put it in the spark plug hole so it rides on the top of the piston. Rotate the engine in both directions. When the dowel is at it's highest point, you're at TDC.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Don and Tim. Both of your ideas sound simple enough. I had been thinking about locating it by determining how many degrees from the keyway that the mark was located. Perhaps I was over engineering it.
Mike A

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI
Not meaning to down Don's way but if you do it his way be sure that the last time you move the crank is in the right rotating direction or your going to be off by as much as there is slop in the timming chain. As far as that goes my way may be off as well but I think it well be closer..
Just my.02
tim

 

[Anonymous]

Tim,
Thanks for your input however it brings another question. If someone were determaning TDC directly by piston position as measured by inserting a measuring device (dowel, bolt or dial indicator) through a plug hole, how would timing chain slop come into play? I would think that this theory would be correct only if you were determaning TDC by cam or valve position and not when measuring directly at the piston. In any case, I installed a new timing set at the time that the engine was installed so timing chain slop should be minimal in this case.

Can someone tell me if the timing pointer is located in the same location on early vs. late 200's? If so, the mark on the pulleys would be the same. I have an early pulley laying around. I could just overlay the two pulleys, line up the keyways and then transfer the timing mark to my pulley. Just another thought.

Mike A

 

[Anonymous]

If someone were determining TDC directly by piston position as measured by inserting a measuring device (dowel, bolt or dial indicator) through a plug hole, how would timing chain slop come into play? I would think that this theory would be correct only if you were determining TDC by cam or valve position and not when measuring directly at the piston. Mike A

True, That’s why I said to:

hold your thumb over the hole while cranking. When you get a whoosh of air, stop. You are now near TDC on the compression stroke.

This will put your cam and valves where they should be for this operation.
Whichever method you use, timing chain slop should only be an issue when counter rotating the engine. If you know your dizzy to be properly installed, after you arrive at where you believe to be TDC check to see that the rotor is pointing to #1.
pedal2themetal45 had a good point about timing chain slop and being on the clockwise rotation. I was thinking you could use the piston stop method and then verify the correctness of the mark in the middle of the first two marks with a dowel while turning the engine in a clockwise direction, then check to see that the rotor is pointing to #1. Then you would be ready to transfer the timing marks.
I can’t help with your other question, I have a 63 and a 66 block.

 

[Lazy JW]

You could take the timing chain completely out of the engine and it will not have any bearing whatsoever on detirmining the location of TDC. All that the timing chain/gears do is drive the cam which has absolutely nothing to do with the relationship of the piston to the timing marks on the crank pulley.

The dowel method will get you within several degrees if you are lucky. Use the physical stop method or pull the head and use a dial indicator. I have had good success with the physical stop method.
Joe

 

[addo]

Panic pointed out that the offset pin does slightly affect either "stop" type measurement. It's possibly insignificant, though.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Lazy JW]

Panic pointed out that the offset pin does slightly affect either "stop" type measurement. It's possibly insignificant, though.

Regards, Adam.

Indeed it will, but in the grand scheme of the cosmos it won't have much effect. The further down in the cylinder that the physical stop contacts the piston the less it will matter but the markes will be farther apart which makes it slightly more difficult to find center in my experience. Stopping the piston about 1/4" from the top has worked well for me.
Joe