To Hone or NOT to Hone...that is the question?!?!?! (long)

MandarinaRacing

Famous Member
Back to my re-ring job....I've found two articles on the web ( article 1 , article 2 ) that claim that honing is not required on a re-ring job using cast iron rings, and that there's no such thing as "deglazing" a cylinder bore....
they say
when you scuff up a perfectly good smooth cylinder with a rude sort of carborundum device, you are in fact only putting scratches on it, giving us a new, larger diameter at their base - sort of like root and pitch diameters in a nut, say. And when you put it back together, the new rings and this rough surface proceed to grind each other down until smoothness is re-attained. By this time, needless to say, you have larger ring gaps, due to more ring wear, and more piston clearance, since the cylinder has been taken down now to the base diameter of the honing scratches. And the valuable metal so removed has been converted into grinding compound circulating in your oil, so you have also reduced the size of your piston, and contributed significantly to wear of all the other parts as well....Although it is true that *chrome* rings are so hard and smooth that it can take from a long time to forever for the cylinder to wear them to perfect fit, this is *not* the case for Cast Iron rings. In fact, that's the secret. Chrome rings only in rough (honed) bores. And hone bores only when you have to, ie as the final "finish" of a bore job. Since the boring bar tool in effect runs a screw thread down the bore in its journey toward the land of largerness, it is necessary to do a final "polish" with a somewhat cruder tool - the hone. This is the *only* reason to put a hone in a cylinder. And when it's done, the machinist has purposely left some extra meat in there for the hone to finish to final diameter. And the final diameter is a tad small as well, in anticipation of the initially rapid wear that is inevitable as the new rings and the scratchy bore get acquainted. This is also the reason for very careful cleaning of said bores before assembly, and for very frequent oil and filter changes, until the motor has stopped manufacturing grinding compound during the break-in process....

OK...so what now....should I do this the old fashioned way....or should I try this method....it does make sense to me... :hmmm:

Alex
 
:shock: Were they the same guys who said to thrash a motor to break it in?

Good food for thought! I like to read challenging dissertations of this type. Worth a try if the Tojo motor fails much more.

Cheers, Adam.
 
I've always believed that the honing yielded the desired surface for good oiling - a lot like a "scrape and flake."
 
Moly filled rings would probably do ok on a smooth worn surface, but chrome and iron rings will have to wear-in, in spite of what these guys say.

The crossflow hybrid in the Locost started with a decent low-mileage block, so it was not bored. I have an 800 grit hone that I use for a final finish on rebored engines, so I hit the bores with that before assembly. All the cylinders are at 175psi cranking pressure and that will probably improve over time.

Maybe I should research this more. I'd like to see the SAE paper.
 
Check your bore. Good shape - molys or chromes. Poorer - Irons.
A light hone with fine stones - as M6 suggested above.
Tight end gaps on (oversized if needed) rings if the bore is well worn.

A lot depends on the current shape of your bore. From what I've read, Molys almost instantly seal in a new bore, while hard chromes take some time. In a less than perfect bore, both may NEVER seal 100%. Irons are softer and more forgiving yet shorter lived as a result.

I'd hone it no matter which ring or what the shape, because I've never seen it FAIL. But then I've NEVER tried NOT honing.

Broncr
 
When I get an engine bored, I usually have Joe finish on the Sunnen with the finest stones he has, a 1200 I think. Very shiny. Moly rings seat instantly on that kind of surface. But Chrome takes forever and iron takes a few hundred miles.

I dunno. I just need to see the report.
 
I have always honed on a re-ring job just because I was told that it was necessary. I'm gonna have to try NOT honing sometime. I don't have any ring jobs in the near future though, ( I hope :shock: )
Joe
 
And when you put it back together, the new rings and this rough surface proceed to grind each other down until smoothness is re-attained.
Well, duh, on a re-ring job that's the whole idea. You're trying to seat a round ring in an oval hole, and it ain't gonna happen for a looooong time if you don't break the glaze on the cylinder wall. Can you say "excessive blow-by?"

The only time that I can think of that you would want a polished bore for new rings is in the case of a fresh re-bore followed by honing/polishing on a preheated block with a torque plate applied.
 
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