water 4 fuel, 50% fuel savings?

['68falconohio]

I understand that separating the water isn't feasible from an energy standpoint because it's water in it's natural state. When you separate it into oxygen and hydrogen, you're going backwards in the formula and against nature.

But how close is it when you factor in all of the energy required to procure the oil from the Earth, and then refine it into usable gasoline?

Is there anyone on the board who can answer:
How much TOTAL energy is required to produce one gallon of usable gasoline and how much TOTAL energy is required to produce the proper mass of hydrogen that would contain the same amount of potential energy?

Or has this already been covered somewhere?

In the end, we're going to have to figure something out for an alternative to fossil fuels. Sure, there's a lot of oil in shale in the Rockies, but that's going to be expensive to produce. I don't think ethanol is the answer, we should use our ability to produce food as leverage against our debt. There aren't many places IN THE WORLD that are like the Midwest.

 

[rbohm]

8) we have an alternative fuel that can be used today, well after a few refineries are built, and our reserves are enough to power the world for the next 300 years. we have the technology to liquefy coal and make a drop in replacement motor fuel from it.

 

[StrangeRanger]

And please let us not forget soy Diesel, or biomass (NOT corn or any other food crop) based ethanol.

 

[Thad]

Read somewhere that most of the Luffwaffe av gas was derived from liquified coal. The was also a story that a complete coal to av gas refinery was shipped to the US after WWII. Our govermental geniuses never could get it to work.
Urban myth or real?

 

[Lazy JW]

....

Is there anyone on the board who can answer:
How much TOTAL energy is required to produce one gallon of usable gasoline and how much TOTAL energy is required to produce the proper mass of hydrogen that would contain the same amount of potential energy?.....t.

I sincerely doubt that any human being can accurately answer this question. What I do know (without venturing into politics here) is that there is no place that has oil easier to get and of such high quality as the so-called Middle Eastern countries. The oil there is relatively close to the surface, needs relatively little refinement, is relatively close to ocean shipping, etc.

This means that there is ( I'm going to wear out this word) RELATIVELY low energy input to make Middle Eastern oil available to the end consumer. Now, when we start talking shale oil, tar sand, or coal-to-oil refining it gets expensive real quick.

Using corn to make fuel alcohol is stupid in so many ways.
Joe

 

[rbohm]

Read somewhere that most of the Luffwaffe av gas was derived from liquified coal. The was also a story that a complete coal to av gas refinery was shipped to the US after WWII. Our govermental geniuses never could get it to work.
Urban myth or real?

8) combination of both, yes the germans did use liquefied coal to produce gasoline and diesel to supply about 40% of their energy needs, myth about transporting a complete refinery here. however we did bring back all the engineering papers that the germans used to build and run the refineries. the reason that we didnt start building our own coal liquefaction plants was due to a treaty we signed with germany in the early 30's that the US would not process coal into a liquid fuel. as far as i am concerned that treaty should have been abrogated when hostilities broke out between the US and germany.