what carbs should i use for a 3x1 intake.
- Thread starter Patrick66
- Start date
I paid the same $200 bucks to rebuild one of my 1904 holley and they did a lousy job. I know for a fact I could have done better only I didn't want to spend the time and for 2 bones I was expecting an awesome job only to be seriously disappointed.
Rebuilt it yourself. If you don't have an air compressor, you can use a aersol canned air.
Good luck,
Rebuilt it yourself. If you don't have an air compressor, you can use a aersol canned air.
Good luck,
Patrick66
Famous Member
i have an air tank that i can fill up at my local gas station, but i dont know anything about rebuilding carburetors. guess ill have to learn because $200 for a rebuild is out of my budget.
ill keep looking for affordable new ones for now. i have some time seems i still need to save some money for the rest of the parts.
ill keep looking for affordable new ones for now. i have some time seems i still need to save some money for the rest of the parts.
Patrick66
Famous Member
i have an air tank that i can fill up at my local gas station, but i dont know anything about rebuilding carburetors. guess ill have to learn because $200 for a rebuild is out of my budget.
ill keep looking for affordable new ones for now. i have some time seems i still need to save some money for the rest of the parts.
ill keep looking for affordable new ones for now. i have some time seems i still need to save some money for the rest of the parts.
Here are the photos of the linkage I promised.ludwig":28sleof0 said:
Basically, I took 1/4" 20 threaded stock, bent to shape. Used heat shrink tubing as a bushing with an acorn nut on the back secured with locktite. The accelator arm coming of the firewall, I tapped it, bolted an insulated clamp and secured it with a nylon locknut. That bolt and lock nut is the same thread and pitch as the stock I used to make the bar. The insulated clamp holds the threaded bar real well, but I backed it with a nut.
If I was to do it again, I'd get a smooth piece of round stock and thread the ends myself.
Patrick66, don't sweat it rebuilding your carbs. There are a lot of folks here that have rebuilt carbs that I'm sure will answer any questions you might have.
I may have to borrow the idea with the pedal linkage to threaded rod idea you used-I need just a little more throw at WOT and making the arm longer would do that. I have been looking for a way to do it and yours seems to be the simplest and most effective-I was thinking way too hard on this one!!! Thanks for the pics!! By the way, i solved the vacuum port interfering with the linkage with a trip to home depot's plumbing dept. A right angle fitting and all is well in the engine bay!
Patrick66
Famous Member
im gonna steal it too.
ive looked at my money, and i cant afford to do this as i had planned. does anybody have any tips on how to make your own 3x1 instead of buying the offy. my goal here is to be as cheap as possible.
carbs: $364 + shipping
regulator: $20
air cleaners: $35
linkage: ?
fuel lines: ?
flat log head: ?
DS2
materials used to make it
jets
anything i missed?
thanks for the help
ive looked at my money, and i cant afford to do this as i had planned. does anybody have any tips on how to make your own 3x1 instead of buying the offy. my goal here is to be as cheap as possible.
carbs: $364 + shipping
regulator: $20
air cleaners: $35
linkage: ?
fuel lines: ?
flat log head: ?
DS2
materials used to make it
jets
anything i missed?
thanks for the help
John,
That is exactly what I'm looking to do with my 61 Comet. I have a 200 not a 250. I have finally obtained all the carbs & kits I was looking for. The carbs kind of mismatch like yours, but I believe if they all have the same jets I should be OK. The center carb will be use for the ported Dizzy. It will also have a AutoChoke. Do you have any tips on getting it running? Pitfalls? Thanks!. Your set up looks excellent.
That is exactly what I'm looking to do with my 61 Comet. I have a 200 not a 250. I have finally obtained all the carbs & kits I was looking for. The carbs kind of mismatch like yours, but I believe if they all have the same jets I should be OK. The center carb will be use for the ported Dizzy. It will also have a AutoChoke. Do you have any tips on getting it running? Pitfalls? Thanks!. Your set up looks excellent.
Tips... ??? I could use them myself! It's been over a year and I'm still not on the road yet. Although I did get it running on Saturday!!! now I have to tune them up, adjust the mixture, etc. Whoever built this motor I ended up with was very uninformed. 280* duration cam with less than 8.9 to 1 compression and solid lifters with a non-adjustable rockers.
We need to do a detailed search of this forum because many members have done this set-up many times over. I'd like to collect all the tips, tricks & suggestions and post a sticky before Mike's aluminum head make these tri-power'd applications obsolete.
If anybody wants to PM me anything related to tri-powers, such as links and what worked or didn't work for them, I'd gladly put it all together.
S2261, what kind of manifold, head, distributor and carbs are you going to use?
We need to do a detailed search of this forum because many members have done this set-up many times over. I'd like to collect all the tips, tricks & suggestions and post a sticky before Mike's aluminum head make these tri-power'd applications obsolete.
If anybody wants to PM me anything related to tri-powers, such as links and what worked or didn't work for them, I'd gladly put it all together.
S2261, what kind of manifold, head, distributor and carbs are you going to use?
Like I said, I just got it running. Now I get to the fun stuff like dial-in the carbs, etc. Patiently waiting for double roller timing set for the 250.
Off the top o' me head:
Most members switched to a single two barrel because it's easier and more reliable.
Hood clearance with air cleaners is a major issue.
Vacuum leaks between the manifold and log intake is a big problem especially with hex log head. The o-rings are a real pain to seat. What's the best way to seal it? JB weld, Marine Tex, silcone...
Idles off the center carb with progressive linkage. Don't need chokes and turn the idle screws all the way in on the outer carbs. The outer carbs don't open up until 2/3's throttle. I guess that depends on how you adjust the linkage.
If you have problems, get the motor running well on the center carb first by blocking off the outer two carbs.
The Webers seem to be the most reliable on a tri-power, ICH center w/ ICT outer. The Autolites the most readily available probably the cheapest unless you buy them from Pony Carbs. The Holleys flood without a fuel pressure regulator are hard to find, expensive, the glass bowls leak and then crack when you tighten too much. Holleys are the shortest carb if hood clearance is a big problem especially on a 250.
My results so far: I got it running with all 3 carbs and the linkage disconnected on the outer carbs. Even with the outer carbs fully closed they are basically two huge vacuum leaks. I got the best vacuum readings off the manifold by cracking open the idle screws on the outter carbs just a hair - about a 1/8 turn.
BTW, my carbs are not mismatched at all. I purchased half-dozen carbs before I found a good set. The center carb is a Holly 1960 that has a larger venturi. The outer carb venturis, Holley 1904, are matched except for the SCV valve, which I have no intention of using. All Holleys are advertised as 1904's even though there are 1960, 1904 & 1908s and they practically look the same on the outside. I'm not planning on using the ported vacuum on the carb, SCV or non-SCV; dizzy's ported from the manifold. It doesn't show in the pics above, the carb ports are now all plugged. Currently running 66 jets on the center carb and 62 on the outer carb. I don't know if they have to be all matching or the outers have to be smaller or what. I got a Colortune kit that one member suggested. I'm going to give that a try to set the mixture correctly and adjust the jets accordingly. I'll let you know what I come up with. Important observation:
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36224
Anybody with any tips or suggestions and links, please forward them to me.
Thanks,
Off the top o' me head:
Most members switched to a single two barrel because it's easier and more reliable.
Hood clearance with air cleaners is a major issue.
Vacuum leaks between the manifold and log intake is a big problem especially with hex log head. The o-rings are a real pain to seat. What's the best way to seal it? JB weld, Marine Tex, silcone...
Idles off the center carb with progressive linkage. Don't need chokes and turn the idle screws all the way in on the outer carbs. The outer carbs don't open up until 2/3's throttle. I guess that depends on how you adjust the linkage.
If you have problems, get the motor running well on the center carb first by blocking off the outer two carbs.
The Webers seem to be the most reliable on a tri-power, ICH center w/ ICT outer. The Autolites the most readily available probably the cheapest unless you buy them from Pony Carbs. The Holleys flood without a fuel pressure regulator are hard to find, expensive, the glass bowls leak and then crack when you tighten too much. Holleys are the shortest carb if hood clearance is a big problem especially on a 250.
My results so far: I got it running with all 3 carbs and the linkage disconnected on the outer carbs. Even with the outer carbs fully closed they are basically two huge vacuum leaks. I got the best vacuum readings off the manifold by cracking open the idle screws on the outter carbs just a hair - about a 1/8 turn.
BTW, my carbs are not mismatched at all. I purchased half-dozen carbs before I found a good set. The center carb is a Holly 1960 that has a larger venturi. The outer carb venturis, Holley 1904, are matched except for the SCV valve, which I have no intention of using. All Holleys are advertised as 1904's even though there are 1960, 1904 & 1908s and they practically look the same on the outside. I'm not planning on using the ported vacuum on the carb, SCV or non-SCV; dizzy's ported from the manifold. It doesn't show in the pics above, the carb ports are now all plugged. Currently running 66 jets on the center carb and 62 on the outer carb. I don't know if they have to be all matching or the outers have to be smaller or what. I got a Colortune kit that one member suggested. I'm going to give that a try to set the mixture correctly and adjust the jets accordingly. I'll let you know what I come up with. Important observation:
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36224
Anybody with any tips or suggestions and links, please forward them to me.
Thanks,
Gene Fiore
Famous Member
John, that's a sweet looking setup! 
Hope you can get it all dialed in!
Hope you can get it all dialed in!Finally got it on the road with all 3 carbs functioning! no stalling, no flooding, no leaking, no hesitations, no choke, no air cleaners... I'll get a choke cable and having a big issue with hood clearance, so I'm not quite done yet. And I still have some adjusting to do on the linkage because I'm not quite getting full throttle. It could idle a bit smoother too.
And I haven't checked the mixture yet other than inspecting the spark plugs, but they're no longer black, sooty nor soakin' wet. It may be a bit on the lean size. So, I still got some work to do.
Adjusting the float levels on all three carbs was a major pain. The factory settings was no where near the mark; every one flooded even with a fuel regulator set at 3 lbs. I sighted them all with glass bowls ending up with the fuel level just a hair below the top edge of the rectangle.
I kept the idle circuits opened about a quarter turn on the outers and 1 1\4 on the center. That gave me the highest vacuum reading and best idle; it's still a little rough though. I also used a vacuum gauge for syncing side draft carbs and checked that both outer carbs are leaking the same amount of vacuum. Removed the power valve, economizer, by blocking the vacuum passage with a gasket cut to full size on the outers only.
Removed two plastic spacers from the power valve on the center carb because of low vacuum readings, dual pattern 264/274 duration cam and the fact that the outer carbs leak vacuum.
Removing the spacers was an educated guess, but it appears to work. There's no hesitation from cuising to load not on the freeway nor climbing hills.
By the way, you can't remove the choke plates on these Holleys especially the 1960 models with the booster built-in to the choke. Even with the 1904s the choke acts as a diffuser for the air flow.
The accelerator pump has two settings adjusted by moving the pump rod from inner hole to the outer hole. Initial setting, I had the outer carbs set to the outer hole on the throttle lever and the center carb had its pump rod set to the hole closest to the throttle shaft. This was my initial setting.
The motor would "fall on its face" when letting the clutch out. I moved the pump rod on the center carb to the outer hole away from the throttle shaft and it worked beautifully. No hesitation, pulled out of the driveway with no problems; it even chirped the tires.
I adjusted the progressive linkage by holding all carbs at WOT then moving the adjustment stops to mate up with the linkage on the outer carbs. Then returned carbs to idle positions and checked that the outer carbs opened at the same time, which they did. I did have some binding on the front carb that was solved by cutting off the lever to the dashpot. I also had to take a dremel tool to grind off a bit from the throttle level on the center carb that was draging against the manifold making it slow for the engine to return to idle.
Oh, and the T-5 allows the Ranchero to cruise 80 mph in 5th gear with a light foot into the gas pedal, no surging, no hesitations. It's a whole new car!
Thanks for everyone's advice! If it wasn't for this forum, I'd still be driving a meek 200 with a 3-speed... and probably wouldn't have spent all that money either... oh well, it was a challenging learning experience adapting a 5-speed and figuring out why a hopped-up second-hand motor with solid lifters and non-adjustable rockers wouldn't run. I now know stuff about dialin' in a cam and carburetors that I didn't know before.
There's a few more things about these Holleys that I came across that I'll share as soon as I get some more pictures.
Take care,
And I haven't checked the mixture yet other than inspecting the spark plugs, but they're no longer black, sooty nor soakin' wet. It may be a bit on the lean size. So, I still got some work to do.
Adjusting the float levels on all three carbs was a major pain. The factory settings was no where near the mark; every one flooded even with a fuel regulator set at 3 lbs. I sighted them all with glass bowls ending up with the fuel level just a hair below the top edge of the rectangle.
I kept the idle circuits opened about a quarter turn on the outers and 1 1\4 on the center. That gave me the highest vacuum reading and best idle; it's still a little rough though. I also used a vacuum gauge for syncing side draft carbs and checked that both outer carbs are leaking the same amount of vacuum. Removed the power valve, economizer, by blocking the vacuum passage with a gasket cut to full size on the outers only.
Removed two plastic spacers from the power valve on the center carb because of low vacuum readings, dual pattern 264/274 duration cam and the fact that the outer carbs leak vacuum.
Removing the spacers was an educated guess, but it appears to work. There's no hesitation from cuising to load not on the freeway nor climbing hills.
By the way, you can't remove the choke plates on these Holleys especially the 1960 models with the booster built-in to the choke. Even with the 1904s the choke acts as a diffuser for the air flow.
The accelerator pump has two settings adjusted by moving the pump rod from inner hole to the outer hole. Initial setting, I had the outer carbs set to the outer hole on the throttle lever and the center carb had its pump rod set to the hole closest to the throttle shaft. This was my initial setting.
The motor would "fall on its face" when letting the clutch out. I moved the pump rod on the center carb to the outer hole away from the throttle shaft and it worked beautifully. No hesitation, pulled out of the driveway with no problems; it even chirped the tires.
I adjusted the progressive linkage by holding all carbs at WOT then moving the adjustment stops to mate up with the linkage on the outer carbs. Then returned carbs to idle positions and checked that the outer carbs opened at the same time, which they did. I did have some binding on the front carb that was solved by cutting off the lever to the dashpot. I also had to take a dremel tool to grind off a bit from the throttle level on the center carb that was draging against the manifold making it slow for the engine to return to idle.
Oh, and the T-5 allows the Ranchero to cruise 80 mph in 5th gear with a light foot into the gas pedal, no surging, no hesitations. It's a whole new car!
Thanks for everyone's advice! If it wasn't for this forum, I'd still be driving a meek 200 with a 3-speed... and probably wouldn't have spent all that money either... oh well, it was a challenging learning experience adapting a 5-speed and figuring out why a hopped-up second-hand motor with solid lifters and non-adjustable rockers wouldn't run. I now know stuff about dialin' in a cam and carburetors that I didn't know before.
There's a few more things about these Holleys that I came across that I'll share as soon as I get some more pictures.
Take care,
Gene Fiore
Famous Member
Whew!!
John,why would Mikes new head make the 3x1 intake setup obsolete?Seems like it would be a dandy setup.
Leo
This is true.However,a 3x1 should still be a pretty good setup on the new head.Leo
woodbutcher":br6hc9sw said:
Leo
Anything on Mike's new cylinder head will be a pretty good setup; I just love that 3 fuel injected side drafts setup! I was refering specifically to a 3x1 on cast iron heads.
Obsolete in the sense that these Offenhauser and Eldebrock 3x1 will be considered vintage speed equipment. So much so, that I was thinking of removing the DUI ignition and going with something older like a Malory Unilite or MSD fired stock ignition. I think the Eledbrock already is considered vintage. Anything we do to the integrated log intake heads can't compete with the new aluminum head. Before dumping money into porting, larger valves, 3 angle, etc. one of the factory heads, I'd go with the new head.
Thanks Gene!
The vintage equipment look was exactly what I was after. I'm still tuning as well after two years, but am close enough that I drive the car every chance I get. I never had expectations of a car of my size being the fastest thing on the roadwhen the 200 looks lost between the fenders. That being said, the car is markedly faster than stock and pulls much harder on the freeway as well.
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