What oil should I use to start new engine?

[Vin Man]

I finished building my small block 200 and want to prime the system with oil today. A couple of questions:

1. What oil should I use for priming: weight, type (synthetic or not), add oil treatment?
2. Should I change oil after I prime the engine?
3. Once I start engine are run it, how long before I should change the oil again?
4. When is it "safe" to switch to synthetic oil? I was thinking 2500 to 5000 miles before I switch to synthetic (Mobil 1) full time.

 

[Anlushac11]

Just my .02c

http://www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I have always used cheap oil for inital start up. gets pitched after a few minutes of run time and was a poor college kid.

but that has been a few years since my last build and oils have changed since then.

 

[Harte3]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

All sorts of oil mythology at that site. Generally, break it in with the oil you are going to run...notice I said GENERALLY. Mine came with 10w-30 installed. Changed at 500 miles and still used 10w-30. At 1000 miles I changed again and went with 5w-30 which is in it now. The opinions on if and or when to run synthetic are so varied as to be wholly inconclusive. My main Tech says after 5000 miles.

Only real differences in oils is the price. If you want to buy some bragging rights, use Royal Purple, Red Line, Schaeffer, etc.

 

[Lazy JW]

.....
4. When is it "safe" to switch to synthetic oil? ......

It is "safe" to use synthetic oil right from the very beginning, any information to the contrary is nothing but unsubstantiated old wives tales.

That said, most of us drain the initial startup oil relatively soon, and since the primary advantage of synthetic oil is longer drain intervals (plus superior cold flow properties) about all one would accomplish is to be draining a more expensive oil prematurely. A less expensive conventional oil will accomplish this "break-in" procedure perfectly.

On my next rebuild I am contemplating using a good synthetic and not draining it for 10,000 miles just to confound the old wives amongst us
Joe

 

[rbohm]

I finished building my small block 200 and want to prime the system with oil today. A couple of questions:

1. What oil should I use for priming: weight, type (synthetic or not), add oil treatment?

i use a straight 30 weight oil, non synthetic, for break in. these days i would also add an additive that has zddp in it to prevent problems with cam break in.

2. Should I change oil after I prime the engine?

not after you prime the engine.

3. Once I start engine are run it, how long before I should change the oil again?

after you start the engine, you want to run it for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm or higher, check your cam grinders recommendation. after this break in period, change the oil and filter. change the oil again at 500 miles, then 1000 miles, then observe normal change intervals

4. When is it "safe" to switch to synthetic oil? I was thinking 2500 to 5000 miles before I switch to synthetic (Mobil 1) full time.

you can switch to a synthetic oil any time after the first regular oil change at 3k miles.

 

[Vin Man]

.....
4. When is it "safe" to switch to synthetic oil? ......

It is "safe" to use synthetic oil right from the very beginning, any information to the contrary is nothing but unsubstantiated old wives tales.

That said, most of us drain the initial startup oil relatively soon, and since the primary advantage of synthetic oil is longer drain intervals (plus superior cold flow properties) about all one would accomplish is to be draining a more expensive oil prematurely. A less expensive conventional oil will accomplish this "break-in" procedure perfectly.

On my next rebuild I am contemplating using a good synthetic and not draining it for 10,000 miles just to confound the old wives amongst us
Joe

My thought as well. I don't want to start using synthetic right off the bat because it gets thrown away.

 

[Vin Man]

I finished building my small block 200 and want to prime the system with oil today. A couple of questions:

1. What oil should I use for priming: weight, type (synthetic or not), add oil treatment?

i use a straight 30 weight oil, non synthetic, for break in. these days i would also add an additive that has zddp in it to prevent problems with cam break in.

2. Should I change oil after I prime the engine?

not after you prime the engine.

3. Once I start engine are run it, how long before I should change the oil again?

after you start the engine, you want to run it for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm or higher, check your cam grinders recommendation. after this break in period, change the oil and filter. change the oil again at 500 miles, then 1000 miles, then observe normal change intervals

4. When is it "safe" to switch to synthetic oil? I was thinking 2500 to 5000 miles before I switch to synthetic (Mobil 1) full time.

you can switch to a synthetic oil any time after the first regular oil change at 3k miles.

Great schedule - thanks.
Would 10W40 be OK? I already have some and it would save me a trip to the store again!

 

[Junk-Falcon]

what rbohm sayd ,, thats Great for first runs ,thats just what i do, 10/40 in az shuld be fine ,, 10/40 up here in ny when its -20 wouldnt be very good

 

[Lazy JW]

......
Would 10W40 be OK? I already have some and it would save me a trip to the store again!

It will be perfect. If you had 10w30 it would also be perfect. So would 5w-30.
Have fun,
Joe

 

[66 Fastback]

You might want the EOS supplement that GM markets for engine break in. I bought a Lucas break in additive at Advance auto. I think they recently started carrying it.
Doug

 

[Anlushac11]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/



Only real differences in oils is the price. If you want to buy some bragging rights, use Royal Purple, Red Line, Schaeffer, etc.

That is outright false.

I recommended Royal Purple engine break in lube because my dad swears by it and it comes with increased levels of zinc and phosphates added to improve lubrication since alot of the newer oils have reduced levels of zinc and phosphates.

If anyone knows of another product that has increased zinc and phosphates and anti-scuffing ingredients added I would recommend it too.

 

[Harte3]

Yup. Mythology overcomes reason in a few too many cases...you just proved that. But it is your money and vehicle and you certainly don't need my permission to think, feel act, react, behave or to buy and use which ever oil you prefer. And if you care to accuse me of false statements be sure you back it up with empirical, documented evidence...what your dad did or does or you for that matter doesn't mean squat.

 

[Lazy JW]

.... empirical, documented evidence....

Which is mysteriously lacking in the snake oil business......

 

[Anlushac11]

Yup. Mythology overcomes reason in a few too many cases...you just proved that. But it is your money and vehicle and you certainly don't need my permission to think, feel act, react, behave or to buy and use which ever oil you prefer. And if you care to accuse me of false statements be sure you back it up with empirical, documented evidence...what your dad did or does or you for that matter doesn't mean squat.

Most motor oils used to contain roughly 1200-1300ppm zinc and phosphate to act as a lubricant. As of a 2004 EPA rule zinc and phosphate was cut down to 800ppm, supposedly to reduce emissions control equipment failures.

1200PPM zinc phosphate is the generally accepted minimum amount for flat tappet cams.

The zinc phosphate helps reduce the chance of galling and scuffing, things that might be important to someone wanting to break in a new engine with a flat tappet cam.

Sources?

What oil should I be using to break in a new engine?

Ideally you want an oil with low or no detergency, no friction modifiers, be non-synthetic, and high levels of Zn and P, to make it as easy as possible for AW wear films to form on engine parts during this critical process.

Brad-Penn offers a SAE 30 break in oil with .14% Zn and P already in the motor oil which requires no additional additives to protect your vital engine parts during the break-in procedure, especially the cam and valve-train. We recommend running a break-in specific oil for the first 100-200 miles, with a change of oil immediately after initial cam break-in, and again at the 100-200 mile mark. If using this oil while breaking in your engine on a dyno, make sure to observe your oil temperatures and try not to exceed 210F to maintain optimal film strength with the viscosity of oil being used.

Alternatively, Joe Gibbs Racing and CMW Oil both offer specialty break-in oils similar to Brad Penn's Racing 1 Break-in oil. In the UK, Millers Oils offers a line of Classic motor oils including "running-in" oil and classic multi-grade oils for older engines needing additional protection. There are countless other oils that should be satisfactory as long as you follow the above criteria for choosing a break-in oil.

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... _Oils.aspx

Zinc phosphate is mainly for anti-wear. The zinc and phosphate go hand and hand. So when you limit phosphate you limit zinc as well.

“You can put zinc in the oil but it won’t act as an anti-wear agent until you add the phosphorous,â€￾ says Speed. “When you have a limit on the amount of zinc-phosphorous you limit the anti-wear agents. The combination of zinc and phosphorous is limited to a maximum of 800 parts per million in API/SM classification, which is the latest classification that came out in 2004.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... _zinc.aspx

And from your own source...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... 66&fpart=3

 

[66 Fastback]

I guess I see both sides of the arguement and don't go so far as to say ZDDP is snake oil. The old oils used to breakdown and lose their viscosity when sheared. Nowadays the oil is more stable and retains its lubricity more. It is largely reported that the amount of anti-wear additives have been reduced to reduce catalytic converter fouling. Maybe the improved lubrication has of the modern oils has offset the need for as much anti wear additives. Part of me thinks that if we are relying on the anti-wear additives rather than a proper lubricant film, then the oil may not be doing its job. But if the cam manufactures recommend certain levels of additives, we are forced to seek out an approved oil or take on more risk of proper cam break in.
Doug

 

[wallaka]

The additive packages in oils are at least as important as the base stock. Probably more so! ZDDP is one of, if not the main anti-wear agent in motor oils. This is a known fact.

 

[Harte3]

I never disputed the need for proper break-in procedure including oil...just that it doesn't have to be expensive oil...which by no stretch of the imagination is false.

And too, these "oil" threads seem to attract a fanatic doctrine v dogma argument when they are nothing more than :deadhorse:.

 

[JackFish]

Is this discussion about the start-up oil that'll be dumped after half an hour, or the oil that you'll put in to run for a while?
There are a number of break-in oil additives available, Redline, Melling, Comp Cams, Lucas....
I plan to break mine in with cheap dino (got some Havoline I think I'll use)and an additive, and then after about 1000 miles switch to some Redline I have stashed.

 

[Vin Man]

From what I've gathered here, I plan to start with the Quaker State 10W-40 and a additive for the initial priming and starting of the engine. I'll prime with a drill. After assembly is complete, I'll run engine for about 20 mins at 2000 rpm. Then I will drain oil and change filter.

I will then fill engine again with Quaker State 10W-40, only this time I don't believe I need the additive (zinc type). I'll put 500-1000 miles on the car, then change oil and filter.

Final oil will be Mobil 1 Synthetic.