Where does synthetic oil come from?
- Thread starter 60s Refugee
- Start date
rommaster2
Well-known member
Bort62":2abskamy said:Yup. One word - Nukleeaarr
and then we just have to hope nobody mentions meltdowns. But if they do we could just respond, i'd rather have a city melt down then the whole world
rommaster2":y43idytd said:Bort62":y43idytd said:Yup. One word - Nukleeaarr
and then we just have to hope nobody mentions meltdowns. But if they do we could just respond, i'd rather have a city melt down then the whole world
Don't even get me started. Totally OT for this forum
95% of the people who mention meltdowns don't even actually know what one is.
60s Refugee
Well-known member
HAH! 
Bort62":3a0qvtpj said:rommaster2":3a0qvtpj said:Bort62":3a0qvtpj said:Yup. One word - Nukleeaarr
and then we just have to hope nobody mentions meltdowns. But if they do we could just respond, i'd rather have a city melt down then the whole world
Don't even get me started. Totally OT for this forum
95% of the people who mention meltdowns don't even actually know what one is.
For sure. I had a whole dissertation written up, then decided to leave it alone.
Well SteveS took my joke, but the way to think of synthetic oil is to think consistency. They process petroleum oil so that the long chain hydrocarbon molecules are all the same length. Kind of like an army where everyone is 6 feet tall.
The oil itself is not synthetic, just the process. I run it in my motorcycle because it's more modern and the tolerances are so close. I doubt that in an older vehicle like my '61 the benefit would outweigh the cost (and it is rather costly).
Hope that helps, now go turn some wrenches.
Doc
The oil itself is not synthetic, just the process. I run it in my motorcycle because it's more modern and the tolerances are so close. I doubt that in an older vehicle like my '61 the benefit would outweigh the cost (and it is rather costly).
Hope that helps, now go turn some wrenches.
Doc
HUMINA
Active member
When I hear "synthetic" I always think it is something made by man to be very similar to some natural (like synthetic fibers for clothes). So I hadn't ever bothered to look into what synthetic oil was but this topic got me interested. Most of this is pulled from the internet with what I hope is a semi-discening eye.
Looks like one of the base materials for synthetic oil is polyalphaolefin. Which is made from olefin which is typically made from ethylene. Ethylene is typically made from natural gas. So, you take natural gas, break it down into a very simple hydrocarbon (olefin) and then build it back up in a very specific way to get a synthic oil base. It sounds like in a laboratory you can make olefins from other base stocks (like ethanol) but that it isn't commercially viable at this time.
Esters also are a possible base material for synthetic oils. Sounds like the base of esters are vegetables, minerals, and fatty acids. This is then synthized into some specific type of ester and then made into oil. Sounds like ester based synthetics may have better high temp characteristics then polyalphaolefins.
Essentially, they make their own hydrocarbon molecule. By controlling the making of the molecule, it is very consistent and essentially impurity free. Oil made directly from crude will have hydrocarbons of slightly varying length and will include some level of impurities.
Also, the term synthetic oil is very much marketing driven. API (American Petroleum Institute) doesn't seem interested in implementing testing or requirements to certify what is or isn't synthetic. From my reading, there is a lot of baffle them with BS in the marketing of the varying brands of synthetic oil.
Looks like one of the base materials for synthetic oil is polyalphaolefin. Which is made from olefin which is typically made from ethylene. Ethylene is typically made from natural gas. So, you take natural gas, break it down into a very simple hydrocarbon (olefin) and then build it back up in a very specific way to get a synthic oil base. It sounds like in a laboratory you can make olefins from other base stocks (like ethanol) but that it isn't commercially viable at this time.
Esters also are a possible base material for synthetic oils. Sounds like the base of esters are vegetables, minerals, and fatty acids. This is then synthized into some specific type of ester and then made into oil. Sounds like ester based synthetics may have better high temp characteristics then polyalphaolefins.
Essentially, they make their own hydrocarbon molecule. By controlling the making of the molecule, it is very consistent and essentially impurity free. Oil made directly from crude will have hydrocarbons of slightly varying length and will include some level of impurities.
Also, the term synthetic oil is very much marketing driven. API (American Petroleum Institute) doesn't seem interested in implementing testing or requirements to certify what is or isn't synthetic. From my reading, there is a lot of baffle them with BS in the marketing of the varying brands of synthetic oil.
66 Fastback
Famous Member
Well said Humina.
Nowadays, Mobil One and most of them are not fully synthetic oils anymore. They started blending them with normal oils for a cheaper product. But you don't see them advertising them as
"New & Improved, Now Blended With Natural Paraffin Crudes"
Doug
Nowadays, Mobil One and most of them are not fully synthetic oils anymore. They started blending them with normal oils for a cheaper product. But you don't see them advertising them as
"New & Improved, Now Blended With Natural Paraffin Crudes"
Doug
60s Refugee
Well-known member
As long as the stuff works as it has so far I don't care if its made of butter or not. I suppose the real question would be which type works better, the natural gas stuff or the veg oil stuff. Or...is there enough diff between the two to really matter.
I know one thing though, my engine is currently in pieces strewn over three different benches. It's the cleanest inside I have ever seen an engine with 28000 miles on it, but there was a considerable amount caked on the outside! I guess that hasn't changed much from back then, syn oil or dino oil cakes in the timing cover just the same .
Harry
I know one thing though, my engine is currently in pieces strewn over three different benches. It's the cleanest inside I have ever seen an engine with 28000 miles on it, but there was a considerable amount caked on the outside! I guess that hasn't changed much from back then, syn oil or dino oil cakes in the timing cover just the same
.Harry
I worked at a chemical company back in the early '90s. We made a product that I was told was similar to Mobil 1. In a reactor vessel, a reactive alcohol (actually a glycol or di-alcohol compound) which was a solid was added to a fatty acid (liquid). It was cooked using a heat transfer oil in an exterior jacket of the vessel that ran in the 700-800 F range. The reaction product was an ester.
Fatty acids, glycols and esters are very general terms for families of chemical compounds.
I'm sure to make "oil" one would have to add viscosity improvers, anti-oxidants, and other stuff to make it a functional motor oil. But the ester is the "base" as far as I know.
Fatty acids, glycols and esters are very general terms for families of chemical compounds.
I'm sure to make "oil" one would have to add viscosity improvers, anti-oxidants, and other stuff to make it a functional motor oil. But the ester is the "base" as far as I know.
60s Refugee":1z8drn4f said:
That's pretty easy. Synthetic is measureably, lab -and real world- proven to be better than dino oil. You can take that to the bank.
Whether it suits your situation better, is another story. For something daily driven and with new seals, no sludge, etc., I'd go for it. The extended service interval means that it really doesn't cost much (if any) more than dino oil. If you have an older engine, it likely has pinholes in the seals that are sludged up. The synthetic will clean this sludge off, and it will leak oil. Not a good idea.
60s Refugee
Well-known member
I think you are right wallaka. I have read other threads where some observe that synthetic oil gets by seals and gaskets. Not badly and not to a critical level, but I do lose about a half a quart between oil changes. I keep it topped off, of course, but fact is, I did find pretty much everything under the hood was lightly coated with oil. Down by the timing cover and along the pan flange it was caked on. In fairness though, I saw the same thing with dino oil, but not as bad as soon. I currently have another thread about the valve cover seal cuz with it coming loose, it has leaked more than anything else,even leaving pools between the log and the head!
But I will still use synthetic, I'll just hafta live with it.
Harry
But I will still use synthetic, I'll just hafta live with it.
Harry