Will a high-perf coil reduce the life of points/condenser?

[65beauty]

Car: 65 mustang convertible 6 cyl 200 cid automatic
carb: Autolite 1100
ignition: load-o-matic w points condenser

Problem:
My coil stopped working. My mechanic said that the engine was setup to use a high performance coil (instead of stock). The previous one was a high performance coil. Do the high performance coils reduce the life of the points/condenser?

Thanks !
Gary

 

[Bort62]

Yes and no.

A higher Voltage arching across two contacts will erode the contacts faster.

Is this something you will realistically notice? Probably not.

I'm not sure what your mechanic means by "setup to use a high performance coil"

Ballast resistor removed?

 

[65beauty]

Thanks Ian. I'm not sure either what the mechanic meant by the car being setup to use a hi-perf coil. He said he couldn't install a stock one. I will call him and find out.

 

[Bort62]

Thanks Ian. I'm not sure either what the mechanic meant by the car being setup to use a hi-perf coil. He said he couldn't install a stock one. I will call him and find out.

Just remember, that Mechanic is often synonymous with Idiot. At least 75% of the guys out there don't have half a clue what they are talking about. If they were anywhere past the top of the bell curve, they would have been something other than a mechanic.

 

[AZstang66]

The mechanic probably just wants you to buy his more expensive 'high performance' coil.

 

[fb71]

Thanks Ian. I'm not sure either what the mechanic meant by the car being setup to use a hi-perf coil. He said he couldn't install a stock one. I will call him and find out.

Just remember, that Mechanic is often synonymous with Idiot. At least 75% of the guys out there don't have half a clue what they are talking about. If they were anywhere past the top of the bell curve, they would have been something other than a mechanic.

unfortunately, I am forced to agree with you on this point. As an instructor/educator of Technicians, I find it disconcerting how many below-average intelligence persons are directed to a mechanical trade. From a high school level, if a student doesn't perform well in academic classes, he/she is often directed be an 'auto mechanic'. What the the majority of high school councilors fail to realize is that a successful candidate NEEDS to be proficient in the fundamental academic disciplines (reading, writing, math) to even have the potential to become a proficient technician. The majority of persons currently masquerading as 'mechanics', in my opinion, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a tool. I am therefore a large proponent of testing and certification. ASE testing is a barely adequite metric to determine knowledge, and no metric currently exsists to measure competency, outside of the manufacturer's specific training. GM's World Class technician program is truely outstandining and impressive, in both education and assessment, and I consider Ford's Master Technician program to be a close second. These two programs exsist for technicians already employed at respective dealers. For new technicians, GM has ASEP and Ford has ASSET, both of which are college degree programs. UTI, Lincoln Tech and the like do not attach any academic course requirements to their certificate programs. Additionally, being intimately familiar with UTI's Exton PA campus and programs (Ford leases classroom space from them), I can say I was not impressed with their technical training offerings. However, they do a great job of promoting professionalism and accountability, which is a tremendous step in the right direction. With all that said, the best thing to do is talk with a mechanic before you allow him or her to do any work for you. If what they say sounds like pure weapons' grade Balognium, then just move on the next one, till you find someone you're comfortable with.

 

[LaGrasta]

I recommend a high voltage coil. Increase the plug gap and you're good to go. "Being set up for one", I don't even know what that means. Sounds like a sale pitch to me.

 

[addo]

Possibly the original resistive wire had been bypassed with a larger gauge non-resistive one?

The other mod that would work with points and the SCV carb, is an ignition module - whether a proprietary one like MSD, or a DIY as espoused on the "gofastforless" website.

Regards, Adam.

 

[rbohm]

8) high performance coils are not the be-end all of ignition system performance. yes they can build larger amounts of voltage, but that can come at a cost of the coil running hotter, and failing earlier. sometimes it will take the points with it, sometimes not. usually though, aftermarket coils can provide an upgrade to the oem coil, as long as oyu get one that is compatible with the stock ignition system. but as a couple of the others have said, your mechanic is high up on the bravo sierra meter.

 

[Lazy JW]

Any coil that allows a higher current draw will tend to shorten breaker point life, all else being equal.

Many many years ago it was detirmined that more than 3-4 amps through the points would lead to significantly reduced breaker point life. Due to the prevalent use of breakerless ignitions there has been no incentive to develop better point material so this current limit is still roughly correct.

Some coils are wound to produce higher voltage at reduced amperage. There is a limit to how much good this can do because it is really the amperage (current) that lights the fire, not the voltage. However, it is voltage that is used in advertising to sell coils.

Read up on ignitions at www.gofastforless.com for some excellent insight into building a better ignition for cheap. Or just buy a DUI ignition from Mike.
Joe

 

[66 Fastback]

I've read something to the effect that it the spark is going use only what energy is required to jump the plug gap. If you have a 45,000 volt coil, that does not mean that it is going to actually operate at that voltage. If it only takes 10,000 volts to jump the gap, then that is what will happen. As mentioned, increasing the plug gap will increase the voltage required to make the jump.
Doug

 

[Lazy JW]

I've read something to the effect that it the spark is going use only what energy is required to jump the plug gap. If you have a 45,000 volt coil, that does not mean that it is going to actually operate at that voltage. If it only takes 10,000 volts to jump the gap, then that is what will happen. As mentioned, increasing the plug gap will increase the voltage required to make the jump.
Doug

Precisely. Much noise is made about "high voltage coils" but so long as the spark can jump the gap it matters not one whit what the coil is rated at.

That said, bigger gaps are better until mis-firing occurs. Higher voltage helps facilitate using bigger gaps. At some point it becomes difficult to CONTAIN all that voltage and the spark may find an easier path to ground, resulting in yet another mis-fire. This is partly why so many modern engines use the Coil On Plug (COP) system. It eliminates a lot of potential short circuits to ground so can reliably run REALLY high powered ignition.
Joe
Joe

 

[66200i6]

So, how can you tell?

If you have a Volt Meter (DVM) you can place your instrument leads across the positive lead wire to the Coil (after removing from coil post) and ground (use the block casting). Set your meter to DC volts ready to read 20 volts or less. Turn on the key and make a note of the voltage to ground. The stock voltage through the resistance wire is about 6 volts (I’m old and forget things, it could be around 6 volts).

If the resistance wire has been bypassed the recorded voltage would be higher at around 12 volts which most after market high output coils need.

The purpose of the Condenser is to reduce the current across the points so they last longer. So the Condenser would end up having to survive the increased voltage from the bypassed resistance wire. I don’t remember any studies the showed how much additional amperage ended up getting through that would affect the longevity of the points. I would think you would end up with a little bit of additional wear of the contacts and shortened condenser life. If the points begin to show a buildup keep them cleaned.

If this is a stock setup and you are still getting the lower voltage at the coil lead wire, stick with the OEM coil. Just make sure that you have good plug wires and fresh plugs to keep you system healthy.

Have fun, Ric.

 

[fb71]

So, how can you tell?

If you have a Volt Meter (DVM) you can place your instrument leads across the positive lead wire to the Coil (after removing from coil post) and ground (use the block casting). Set your meter to DC volts ready to read 20 volts or less. Turn on the key and make a note of the voltage to ground. The stock voltage through the resistance wire is about 6 volts (I’m old and forget things, it could be around 6 volts).

If the resistance wire has been bypassed the recorded voltage would be higher at around 12 volts which most after market high output coils need.

The purpose of the Condenser is to reduce the current across the points so they last longer. So the Condenser would end up having to survive the increased voltage from the bypassed resistance wire. I don’t remember any studies the showed how much additional amperage ended up getting through that would affect the longevity of the points. I would think you would end up with a little bit of additional wear of the contacts and shortened condenser life. If the points begin to show a buildup keep them cleaned.

If this is a stock setup and you are still getting the lower voltage at the coil lead wire, stick with the OEM coil. Just make sure that you have good plug wires and fresh plugs to keep you system healthy.

Have fun, Ric.

actually, you need to have the coil positive connected, and the points closed (coil in saturation) to determine available voltege to the coil. If you check it open circuit (coil disconnected) you will see source voltage. The coil circuit is a voltage divider circuit, which isn't measurable when its disconnected. If during load (coil on), the meter reads close to battery voltage (which should be checked just prior to this test), then the resistor has been bypassed. If the meter reads between 6 and 9 volts, then the pink resistor wire is still in place.

as for points and condensors, the condensor's job is to suppress flyback voltage, and limit arcing across the points. Electrical arcs (blue-white spark) are approximately 35,000 deg F, about 4 times the temp of the surface of the sun (color and temp have a dirrect correlation). This is well into the realm of the 4th state of matter, plasma. Metal at each end of the spark turns to vapor, leaving a small pit. series of these pits (and the resulting peaks between them) build resistance, causing longer time-to-saturation, lower coil primary voltages, and eventually erratic points operation. This causes hard starts, runs rough conditions and misfires.