Yet again, EFI , Multi-port EFI on an Aussie 250/2V

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CobraSix

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Well, like they say...once you get something new, you look at getting more out of it. It seems like the Aussie 250/2V head/intake is a great candidate for MPFI. Just tap some bungs at the end of the runners for the injectors, run a throttle body to a computer like the HOlley Commander 950 (I'm really impressed with this computer) that can run up to 8 injectors, forget if High or low impedence. It'll run 8 of one, and 4 of the other.

I figured I would set this up with a batch fire firing all 6 injectors at the same time for lots of small bursts. We've already discussed the merits of batch versus sequential. I think sequential has a lot more engineering involved in coming up with an ignition system that references #1 cylinder.

What do you guys think? Think it will work out well?

Slade
 
Sorry CobraSix,
I like my Holley 2v 500 (375cfm) on my Aussie head and Little Roo (jason) says you would have to kill him :shock: to get him to take off his Holley 750 CFM double pumper from his Aussie 2V (w/modded Intake). Now I'm not saying you might not get a little more HP with a little fuel injection, but how much more is left after you are allready running a LARGE Holley carby? I'm sure fuel injection is great if you are upgrading from a old ford 1100 1v carby ;) But if you have a Aussie 2v head and intake with a tuned Holley 2v or 4v is it worth all the engineering and money for the few more horses you may find? Also for what this mod would cost you could buy a nice used Turbo and build up a Turbo Six probably another 40-50 hp from the turbo alone! Just my view on the matter, modern auto's get lots of there HP from new techonology (sp) other than the Fuel Injection!
 
Ben,

Excellent points about the power/cost ratio. I'm not doing it for the power increase. I'm doing it more for everyday drivability. I put about 10k miles a year on my mustang. It seems like every winter I have to rebuild the carb and retune it for the cold weather. Maybe I just suck at rebuilds (more then likely the truth). Also, since I do drive this car in teh winter, I need a set up that has no problems starting and driving in temps below 20*F. The carbs just seem to have problems when the temps get really cold. Sure, once the car warms up, it is just fine, but it doesn't like starting up. I'll give my 2V a chance, and if I can lay paws on a 4V from Holley, I may give that a whirl. I am going to go with a new carb to start with. I'm sick of dealing with carbs that need rebuild. I'll pay the extra money for a good new carb from holley.

Now maybe once I get through this winter, maybe I'll re-think EFI, but right now, it seems a pretty nice option.

Also, thinking real big here...forced induction will really like EFI... hehehehehe.

Slade
 
EFI Rocks! The one thing that I really like is the way the Mustang can just sit there for weeks, and I can simply turn the key and drive away.
 
True that is a benefit of EFI, but that's still alot of bucks for a complete setup. I had a hard time convincing myself to buy a Aussie 2V because of the high cost, But afterwards it seamed like a "no brainer" for the performance gain i got. You both may be right for drivability it may be the thing to do, I only drive 3 miles round trip to work each day, It takes longer to warm up the old Mustang than to drive to work, I'm only a block from the hwy entrance and my work is also about a block from my exit. But just to let you know my SOn Jason drives his Mustang Aussie 4V to College 20 miles round trip each day and has no problems, ...errrr.... other than GAS! :shock: ;) You both have a Merry Xmas!
 
The other thing pointed out to me was that the sealed engine venting and fuel systems of EFI rigs eliminates the engine bay smelling like a stale lawnmower. No more oil or fuel smells!

Adam.
 
I don't think my MPG will improve that much, but anything is a help for 100mile trip a day. But it isn't even that. I just tire of the constant tinkering my carbs seem to need every time the temps change more then 20 degrees.

I'll be running a carb for awhile still, but I'll be saving up gift certificates until I have enough to buy the universal kit.

Slade
 
A guy at work that is heavy into turbos and EFI on small 4 cylinder motors keeps telling me to find an EFI setup off a 3.8 Buick turbo motor.

A turbo , inter cooler and set the EFI up on an Aussie head/intake is his idea for my 200cid motor.

I've got the OZ head and intake
 
Crosley,

That's my long term dream/goal. Turbo. I prefer turbo on a EFI car then a carb and so I will probably go EFI first and see how I like it. I'm concerned about reliability, but I guess that's why I got a AAA membership. Which reminds me I need to up the towing coverage.

I'm down to two systems:
www.holley.com and the commander 950
or
www.electromotive-inc.com and the DFU and TEC3

Holley system is more simple, and cheaper. It also has less expansion capability and it can't run sequential MPFI. Not sure if that's a big enough issue.

Electromotive is more expensive, looks more complicated set up, but it offers a nice crank trigger and cam sync that is based on the dizzy shaft. It uses a DIS system with 3 coils for the cylinders. As such it also allows Sequential MPFI, but also has more room for expansion, such as a knock sensor, waste gate control (for a turbo), and others.

Holley system, complete and installed, about $1300-1500 depending on some options.

Electromotive TEC3 plus DFU, around $2400-2800 depending on options.

Time to start saving up some money. Looks like I'm leaning towards Holley a little more.

Slade
 
In one buildup that Grassroots Motorsports did on a rotary, the horsepower jumped significantly by switching from SDS to a TEC III. They attributed it to the better ignition control and fuel mapping.

The Electromotive HPX ignition would have solved my distributor clearance problems.
 
Jack, you've scared me. I was thinking of using the SDS system on my turbocharged drag 200. Do you think that the rotary's needs may be beyond this system? Are you not happy with the SDS performance? I'm under the impression that MSD-type boxes with distributors still give better all out performance over distributorless types.
 
The SDS works fine - no regrets. I still recommend it as a great solution that is easy to install and tune.

Consider how fast a rotary turns and the number of firing events that have to occur and you can see where having a faster, better processor might be an advantage. The Electromotive is tunable to a much finer degree, but that comes at a price. It is more complex to set up and tune and costs considerably more. Also, when I say the Electromotive outperformed SDS, it was by only 8-10 hp on a 250 hp engine at 8500 rpm. In real terms, you'd never be able to feel the change.

The newer SDS EM-4 is supposed to have better resolution, though, and for the price, the SDS is very hard to beat. The -F system with DIS is very attractive and would be my first choice if I were doing it again.
 
My .01 dollars' worth;
EFI of any kind would certainly improve the throttle lag situation on the log heads.

Of course, so would a bandsaw and a rig like Jack's new one! :D

Just an idea for those EFI units: the 1978-later exhaust manifolds have a big hole right at the max suction point of the manifold. This big bung hole (about 1" NPT) is used for the suction-fed air to the catalytic converter on these later cousins of the 200. This suction system consists of a couple of hoses that connect from the air cleaner, thru a one-way check valve and a muffler (to tone down the roar), then thru a fancy, looped-once bent steel tube, into the exhaust manifold. It moves a surprising amount of air, too. I know that a brass NPT plug fits nicely into the hole, which would make a nice place for a close-point response from an oxygen sensor.

Some of the EFI systems I've worked with rely heavily on this kind of sensor for the mix adjustment. If it is located too far from the exhaust valve, the reaction to the throttle changes slows down. This makes for throttle lag. On bikes, in particular, moving this sensor closer to the exhaust valve improves throttle response.

I dream of going EFI on a log head one day. My approach would be along the lines you describe, Slade, because for a decade this was the approach used on bikes - very successfully. In general, the injectors pulse all together, regardless of which cylinder is firing. When the vacuum drops low (like your foot is 'way into it), the injectors fire twice in each cycle with the same injector duration until the RPM rises - often this is just done with an RC (resistor-capacitor) time constant, like 1.2 seconds' worth.

I just keep planning... ;)
 
I have been working on EFI for the log headed sixes. The idea of cutting off the log and building a great intkae and exhast appeals to me. Lucky beggars with ME, SP and 2V and alloy heads have it all over Loggers.

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10024&highlight=

The main thing I've done is created a package that allows the log to stay as it is, much as the 3-carb Offy and Clifford carbs. I've also said a big no to slide or butterfly port efi systems like on race cars, but mine looks a lot like a set of six hilborne horns. The key is it packages on the log, and allows use of a MAP sensor like the later EFI Falcons.

After slaveing away over my C1A 200 Log head doing the design mock-up, I'd say your 2v set-up is perfect for an EFI set-up.


For the 2V, its more an issue of getting the injector and rail sorted for the fuel delivery. Once the wet gear is sorted, the electronics are very simple.

Examine the options, and go for it. Don't be scared of dreaming up the best options. If you overspent trying to make an inferrior set-up work, then the more expensive option will be the least cost option. People are scared they can't spring for the better options when you will have people knocking on your door and throwing you 10 dollar bills to do the same on there car.

I'm not an injection guy at all, nor do I particularly like turbos, but I've worked with some complicated data acquisition units at work, and find EFI far less stressful. Carbs and high boost turbos are not good bedfellows. Besides, an EFI system is a natural for the ultimate in small in-liners...a 200 cube EFI turbo. The Ford i6 engine is anvil tough, and any modern hop-up will save you down the line if you get the right assistance.
 
Hey, Xecute;
I was reading your post (above) about the EFI. I'm a little confused by the description: do you have any pix or sketches?
 
Yes I do. I'm getting the details ready for posting soon. Long ago I realised I bambozle people. No good unless theres 'army proof!'

You'll be supprised how simple the EFI log idea is.


Got a list of 10 projects that I'll post.
 
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