IGNITING

HEY GUYS, COOL FORUM!
CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS PETRONIX IGNITION THING I'M HEARING ABOUT? I'VE GOT A '65 200 AND IT'S PRETTY COLD NATURED.DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD HELP? WHERE'S THE BEST PLACE TO GET ONE?HOW MUCH? :thanks:

As with everything else, you are going to get several opinions on this subject. So hear goes. The Pertronx Ingitor is available in two versions. The original "Ignitor" and the "Ignitor II" ($59.95 and $79.95 at Mustangs Unlimite- also available many other places). The Ignitor is 20 - 25 year old technology, i.e., well tested simple electronic ignition. The Ignitor II is the latest product (less than two years old), and has several important upgades.

1) It is intended to be used with a 12 volt coil (Flamethrower 2 - 45000 volts - $36.95). Therefore the stock ballast resistor in the Mustang coil circuit is removed / eliminated (Mustangs use a 6 volt coil via a resistor under the dash in the ingition to coil line). Elimination of the resistor greatly improves the signal to the module and allows the coil to do a better job. As a side bar, the Ignitor's reputation was somewhat hurt by this issue as the instructions were not real clear on the fact that the system needed 12 volts to operate properly. So, many people used the coil as a power source. This is not a 12 volt power source in a stock car. The resulting reliability problem was then blamed on the product. The real problem, in my mind, was poor installation instructions.

2) The Ignitor II has a built in microprocessor to manage dwell. So the signal to the plug is the longest possible throughout the rpm range. This also adds to timing stability throughout the range.

3) Very important in my mind. It is possible, over time, to burn up an elertonic ignition module by leaving the key on while the engine is not turning. Ever sit and listen to your sound system while parked? The Ignitor II has a circuit to protect it from this type of use.

For $115 and 20 minutes of install time you will can have a 45000 volt system with a 12 volt coil and dwell control. Frankly, this technology is way beyond the ability of the now 20+ year old Ford Duraspark II (DII or DSII) system many people on this forum recommend (now I'm in trouble). As proof, many of them have replaced the Ford controller with a $180 MSD unit to get the advantages I just listed.

Last issue. If you are using the stock 65 distributor it is probably the dual vac "Load-o-matic" unit. Since this distributor will only work with the Autolite 1100 carb. your car came with, now would be a good time to think about future plans. If you purchase an Ignitor II for thr Load-o-matic and want to upgrade the carb at a later date you will need to change the distributor, i.e., you will need to purchase another Ignitor II. It would be wise to change to the dual advance distributor now (stock 1968 - 1973 available rebuilt for about $65). This way you get a more managable advance curve, a long list of carb options, and you only need to purchase the Ignitor one time.

Hope this is helpful - Steve

I thought I'd comment on the Duraspark II before anyone else got to it.
For a factory system, the D-II is pretty darned good. I've driven a combined 200k miles in Fairmont/Zephyr I-6 and I-4s with D-II and never had a related problem.
I've heard the Pertronix (if installed properly) is quite reliable also, but I've never had one in my own car; friends with them have had generally good results (exceptions mainly being install related or problems with original wiring that were not corrected).
The major advantages of the D-II are:
1. You can get the module and distributor together, in a junkyard, for pennies on the dollar.
2. You can get them cheaply at any auto parts store. Other parts for my Fairmont have been in regular stock and I would imagine the D-II parts are too. According to Autozone online:
Dizzy, $50, no core charge, not in regular stock
Control box, 15.99, no core charge, regular stock.
Disadvantages:
1. It's probably a tougher install than the Pertronix (mine have always been pre-installed!
2. It's still a stock setup and may not provide the required spark for a really hot setup.
My vote is D-II fora reliable setup, Pertronix or the like for a high-compression, modified engine. All this is, of course, just IM(ns)HO.
Ben

Actually the D2 set up is about as dificult as changing a battery. There are a few things to look for but I recommend it highly.

You will need the distributor, Cap, rotor and cap to distributor adaptor. I believe I spend about $70 total on all these NEW parts from O'Reilley. Don't forget to add about $30 if you plan on upgrading to some good wires.

The Dizzy and the Module with both have male pigtails sticking out that don't match up. I cut the plugs off and then soldered the 2 unit's wiring together. I will probably go back and redo this part with some correct connectors. If you plan ahead the whole process should take no more than 4 hours. That includes installation, making new plug wires and then soldering the two units together. When I solder I take my time and use shrink wrap. Heck, I think some of that 4 hours was used up going back to the parts store to get the cap adaptor.

One last note. When you buy everything, get it at one store. Then put everything together on the counter. Autozone had thier part numbers mixed up for the cap adaptor and I ended up getting the wrong one. If you have an O'Reilley's nearby, go there!

If anyone needs any suggestions to do this, let me know.

Jason

allow me to throw another contender in to the mix. i use the crane xr700 conversion in my falcon. it is quite reliable. all three systems discussed here are good one to use. if i could have use the d2 system i would have in the falcon. the thing here is to pick a system you like and go with it. they are all easy to install and tune.

Howdy Simpleman:

Welcome to the Forum. Wow! you got some great info from Ben and Steve. That is the most objective, knowledgeable and thoughtful comparison I think I've ever heard.

Simpleman, either the Ignitor or the DSII would be an improvement over your stock "Load-a-Matic" distributor, because your stock distributor has vacuum advance only, which is controlled by a Spark Control valve in your Autolite 1100 carb. Both the '68 to '73, point type distributor and the '76 & later, DSII have both centrifugal and vacuum advance built into them, plus electronic ignition. That makes them better choice to upgrade and for performance, economy and driveability.

If your goal is to maintain a concours stock classic, stick with the Load-a-matic system, add the original Ignitor, and make sure that everything functions as intended.

If "Stock Appearance" is important to you, then go with the '68-'73 and add the Ignitor II. If you're into resto mod, then go with the DSII system. Both of these options will function better If you plug the Spark Control valve in the Autolite 1100 carb and tap a full vacuum source for the vacuum advance- Or use a later, '70-'79 Carter YF and use the ported vacuum source to operate the vacuum advance. This carb will require switching to a throttle cable linkage in adapting it to your '65.

If you're going with recycle yard parts, it is best to find a donor that can provide your with everything from the air cleaner to the spark plug wires. Then when you need new parts, like an air filter element, you ask the parts person for what ever year the donor is.

Your choice. Enjoy the trip. What's the Plan, Man?

Adios, David

THANKS GUYS!
I DON'TCARE ABOUT APPEARANCES AND IT'S NOT A HOT ROD,IT'S MY WIFE'S DAILY DRIVER. SO, I'M INTO WHATEVER IS CHEAP,LONG LASTING AND SIMPLE.(I'M SIMPLE MINDED-MY WIFE CALLS ME SIMPLETON JUST BEFORE SHE HITS ME) THERE MAY BE A NEW CARB IN THE FUTURE WITH AN AUTOMATIC CHOKE BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I EXPLAIN IT, SHE JUST CANT GRASP THE THE CONCEPT OF PULLING AND PUSHING A CHOKE BUTTON. ON COLD MORNINGS SHE SWEARS UP AND DOWN THAT WE NEED SOME FRONT WHEEL DRIVE, FUEL INJECTED THING WITH SENSORS AND GADGETS JUST BECAUSE THEY START EASY. THEN I HAVE TO RUN THROUGH MY WHOLE SHPIEL ABOUT HOW IT WOULD END UP IN THE BONE YARD BY THE TIME IT'S PAID FOR UNLIKE THE OLD FALCON WHICH CAN BE PASSED DOWN TO THE GRAND KIDS :roll: ANYWAY, THANKS AGAIN