4Litre_SiX
New member
Just wondering if the crank and rods are the same in a 170 engine regardless of it its a "narrow" or "wide" block?
170 Crank and Rods
- Thread starter 4Litre_SiX
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4Litre_SiX
New member
Thanks for that. I thought they would be the same. I have been offered a 170 "wide" engine in parts and I am thinking of using the crank, rods and maybe the pistons in my 144. Im pulling the 44 out due to an intermittent knock.
Um, sorry, info I have is no, won't work.
I understand that the 1965 XP engine was an intermediate year. In 1965, the block became seven bearing. In 1966 to 1968, for Australia only, it became a wide block. The 1965 version had an adaptor to run the wide block Borg Warner 35 trans on the narrow "2.77" block. It used the original US block dimensions, and it was after Octbober 1965 that 200's and 170's generally got special seven bearing cranks.
144 and early 170 are only four bearing block, and all 170 rods are different to the 144 and 200 rods, with, if I reacll, an intermediate 4.815" rod size as used on all US and Aussie 170 engines. The 144 block has no provision for the 170 seven bearing crank, and different size oil pump and camshaft casting which doesn't allow for space for 200 size con rods.
I understand that the 1965 XP engine was an intermediate year. In 1965, the block became seven bearing. In 1966 to 1968, for Australia only, it became a wide block. The 1965 version had an adaptor to run the wide block Borg Warner 35 trans on the narrow "2.77" block. It used the original US block dimensions, and it was after Octbober 1965 that 200's and 170's generally got special seven bearing cranks.
144 and early 170 are only four bearing block, and all 170 rods are different to the 144 and 200 rods, with, if I reacll, an intermediate 4.815" rod size as used on all US and Aussie 170 engines. The 144 block has no provision for the 170 seven bearing crank, and different size oil pump and camshaft casting which doesn't allow for space for 200 size con rods.
4Litre_SiX":2ptiq1cm said:
I knew you were Australian, as no Americans got wide block engines unless they had low mount 200 or 250 I6's
:duh:
Oh, i get it now, putting the Aussie XP 170 engine (1965) into your earlier 144 equiped XK/XL/XM Falcon (1960-1964). 
I thought that you might be trying to be fitting a 170 seven bearing crank and rods into your 144. A ridiculus assumption of mine
4Litre_SiX
New member
Thanks guys, Although you are correct, I was thinking if I had the little ol' 144 apart I might as well utilise the block ( if bores are any good ) and use a 4 main 170 crank, rods and pistons to effectively stroke the 144 to a 170 ( as ford did from the factory ) However I can only seem to find "wide" block 170's from XP ( 1965 ) falcons onwards. Which I wasnt sure if the cranks were different. It seems they may have gone to a 7 main crank which obviously wont work.
If I can find a complete narrow block 170 or 200 Ill do a complete engine transplant. Theyre getting very rare here. Plenty of wide blocks around but they wont mate up to my 2 speed auto.
If I can find a complete narrow block 170 or 200 Ill do a complete engine transplant. Theyre getting very rare here. Plenty of wide blocks around but they wont mate up to my 2 speed auto.
For the benifit of our other non Aussie members.
I was possitive the first seven bearing 170/200 engine was the 1965 XP engine, and that it had the marrow US style block
I under stood that the XP 1965 Australian Falcon, with its Mercury Meteor body pannelling and Thunderbird 1963.5 roof, was an intermediate year from the four bearing 170 block to the Australian seven bearing 160 teeth wide block. The Borg Waner 35 was used as opposed to the US Ford-O-matic and they had to wait after the 1964 C4 Automatic used in the first Mustang and last year square rigger version of the Falcon before they could get one suitable for the 170 and 200 sixes.
The BW 35 was a US designed trans which Ford Australia also used on the locally assembed Mark II Bristish Zephyr, and was also latter found in the Swedish 144/164 Volvo, which was laterly also locally assembeld from British parts with a 65% British content (Salisbury gear Dyan 30 diff, BW transmissions, Stromberg or SU carbs. Its was the AMC six cylinder transmission too). So it was easier for Ford Australia for pick up locally made or imported parts, especailly when it was better than Ford US parts of the time As stated, the Vovlo was already progessing to the US 221/260/289 160 teeth flywheel, so the BW 35 was easily hooked up using an adaptor on the stock US 170/200 block.
And so the first XP got a BW 35 rather than a Ford C4 gearbox. It had to wait untill before an Aussie Ford Falcon six got a c4 gearbox, that was the Aussie alloy bellhousing C9.
I was possitive the first seven bearing 170/200 engine was the 1965 XP engine, and that it had the marrow US style block
I under stood that the XP 1965 Australian Falcon, with its Mercury Meteor body pannelling and Thunderbird 1963.5 roof, was an intermediate year from the four bearing 170 block to the Australian seven bearing 160 teeth wide block. The Borg Waner 35 was used as opposed to the US Ford-O-matic and they had to wait after the 1964 C4 Automatic used in the first Mustang and last year square rigger version of the Falcon before they could get one suitable for the 170 and 200 sixes.
The BW 35 was a US designed trans which Ford Australia also used on the locally assembed Mark II Bristish Zephyr, and was also latter found in the Swedish 144/164 Volvo, which was laterly also locally assembeld from British parts with a 65% British content (Salisbury gear Dyan 30 diff, BW transmissions, Stromberg or SU carbs. Its was the AMC six cylinder transmission too). So it was easier for Ford Australia for pick up locally made or imported parts, especailly when it was better than Ford US parts of the time As stated, the Vovlo was already progessing to the US 221/260/289 160 teeth flywheel, so the BW 35 was easily hooked up using an adaptor on the stock US 170/200 block.
And so the first XP got a BW 35 rather than a Ford C4 gearbox. It had to wait untill before an Aussie Ford Falcon six got a c4 gearbox, that was the Aussie alloy bellhousing C9.
4Litre_SiX
New member
my brain hurts haha. Thanks for the info. You are right. The early XP falcons had a 170 U.S style narrow engine with 2 speed ford-o-matic or early 3 speed manual box and somewhere into the XP cycle Ford fitted them with 7 main 170 and 200 "wide" blocks mated to the BW35 auto or later style 3 speed manual.
Ford Australia DID make 170 wide block engines with 4 mains for the XP range (1965/66) when used with the 3 speed auto (BW35) -probably from early 1966 when 3 speed auto released
the 170 narrow (4main) cranks) and the 170 wide (4 main ) cranks shold be the same - cant imagine why ford would have differnt 4 main cranks - would have all been made o the same machinery.
ford australia also used ( for the XP) the 200ci 4 main narrow block engines (imported from canada) with the 3 speed auto (BW35) - by using an adapter plate- actually has a Ford part number.
late in the XP model run (ie mid 1966) you might find wide block 200ci engines (most likley 7 mains) - presumeably as ford started australian engine production of the new 200ci wide 7 main engines (170 i'm not sure about the 7 mains) for the forthcoming next falcon - the XR released aug/sept 1966
the 170 narrow (4main) cranks) and the 170 wide (4 main ) cranks shold be the same - cant imagine why ford would have differnt 4 main cranks - would have all been made o the same machinery.
ford australia also used ( for the XP) the 200ci 4 main narrow block engines (imported from canada) with the 3 speed auto (BW35) - by using an adapter plate- actually has a Ford part number.
late in the XP model run (ie mid 1966) you might find wide block 200ci engines (most likley 7 mains) - presumeably as ford started australian engine production of the new 200ci wide 7 main engines (170 i'm not sure about the 7 mains) for the forthcoming next falcon - the XR released aug/sept 1966
Great news.
I was pretty sure the adaptor to run a BW35 was to mate the US block (2.77/ 132 and 136 teeth) dimensions to the forthcoming Australian 160 teeth bell.
My work mate had a 200 XP and the 200 XR bits didn't fit it exactly, despite both being within two years of each other. There were obviously major changes to the Aussie I6 engines to suit local tooling, and the earlier block flange width was unable to support the 9.25" clutch needed for the Falcon Utlility.
I was pretty sure the adaptor to run a BW35 was to mate the US block (2.77/ 132 and 136 teeth) dimensions to the forthcoming Australian 160 teeth bell.
My work mate had a 200 XP and the 200 XR bits didn't fit it exactly, despite both being within two years of each other. There were obviously major changes to the Aussie I6 engines to suit local tooling, and the earlier block flange width was unable to support the 9.25" clutch needed for the Falcon Utlility.
heres some pics of what i was talking about :
200ci
5 welch (core) plugs: C4 casting
4 mains:
and adapter plate to take the 'narrow' block out to wide block to fit a wide block Bw35 bellhousing:
also spaces out the starter motor as the aust wide block motors have larger dia flex plate (and flywheels)
200ci
5 welch (core) plugs: C4 casting
4 mains:
and adapter plate to take the 'narrow' block out to wide block to fit a wide block Bw35 bellhousing:
also spaces out the starter motor as the aust wide block motors have larger dia flex plate (and flywheels)
Another case of Advance Australia engineering. Those guys were 15 years ahead of the low mount big bell 3.3 US block, and able to run a huge 9.25" clutch with that adaptor. Great stuff!
According to my litrature research, aside from rust, ball joints, torque box and spring tower brace failures of XK, XM, and XL Falcons, there were a bunch of clutch problems with early Falcons.
Due to this, during the 1963-64 era, there was consideration to ditching the weak kneed Falcon platform completely. Thankfully for us, the Canadian Bill Bourke revitalised and fortified the Falcon with better Tank and Compact Fairlane parts, and so the Falcon got the V8 221/260/289 Small Block 160 teeth and later C9 157 teeth C4 flexplate sizes by 1965, in neutral balance form.
The BW 35 already tended to use a crank pilot adaptor on the Cortina, and Ford Zepyhr 6, so doing a full wide adaptor was not much of an issue.
This was what I based my wide block adaptor on back in 2004 so SBF AOD's, FMX's and big 164 teeth truck C4's could fit to the wide or narrow version of the Aussie or US high mount blocks.
According to my litrature research, aside from rust, ball joints, torque box and spring tower brace failures of XK, XM, and XL Falcons, there were a bunch of clutch problems with early Falcons.
Due to this, during the 1963-64 era, there was consideration to ditching the weak kneed Falcon platform completely. Thankfully for us, the Canadian Bill Bourke revitalised and fortified the Falcon with better Tank and Compact Fairlane parts, and so the Falcon got the V8 221/260/289 Small Block 160 teeth and later C9 157 teeth C4 flexplate sizes by 1965, in neutral balance form.
The BW 35 already tended to use a crank pilot adaptor on the Cortina, and Ford Zepyhr 6, so doing a full wide adaptor was not much of an issue.
This was what I based my wide block adaptor on back in 2004 so SBF AOD's, FMX's and big 164 teeth truck C4's could fit to the wide or narrow version of the Aussie or US high mount blocks.
