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Ford 170 overhaul

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falcon_master
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Ford 170 overhaul

Post #1 by falcon_master » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:32 am

Happy 2018 everyone hope Christmas was good. I finally got my six to fire for about 30 sec and it quit but in that time I think I saw sign the engine is kinda worn. It smoked ALOT. I mean I expected that for it sitting and the marvel oil and stuff but this was like it was running on nothing but oil and it was backfireing and sounded like a diesel then stalled and I couldn't get it to start again. It has almost no compression. It might ( and this is a pure guess) be that the valves are bent but it might be nothing that running it some more won't fix. Is this engine done. I was thinking about overhauling it like dirt cheap. I mean pull it out dingleball hone the cylinders self polish crank new bearings and maybe rings but that's it. Is it worth that work and price or is this engine a junker.
Thanks everyone
Junior year high school AFJROTC cadet and car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan,144CI and 3spd column shift. estimated 124,000 miles. Resurrected after sitting outside for 18 years, In process fixing for use as daily driver YouTube channel for repairs coming soon. “Old cars may break but are never broken”-RCR

slowhoon
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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #2 by slowhoon » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:00 am

Hi,

For what it's worth, I've never been able to get an accurate compression test on the 6 in my car without getting it up to operating temperature first. Especially after it has sat for a few months.
The valves may well have some light corrosion on their seats which will wear off with about 10 minutes of running and the pistons will also need to heat up and expand a bit.
Of course, none of this helps if you can't get it running right. Has it run properly in the past?

Alan.

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B RON CO
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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #3 by B RON CO » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:43 am

Hi, don't give up yet, just charge the battery and try again. All the smoke probably was the Marvel oil, and the back firing could very well be ignition timing. Also check the firing order. Popping up the carb is a sign of a lean condition, and check the point gap. Go over the simple things first. Did you do a compression test? Post the numbers.
You can always open it up later. Rings and bearings are not too expensive, but if you need to bore it it will cost $. Also rebuilding the head costs some money. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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chad
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start up of long sitting 170ci

Post #4 by chad » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:00 am

170 is a real tqer! & tq is king.

The 170 (or any 'falcon' motor) is an excelent platform to learn on - simple, durable, and rewarding in outcome.
Continue ur attempts to start but ck all systems as U go (battery, ignition, fuel & carb). Learn how these different components work together to cover thousands of carefree miles on the American highway! Did U get the "falcon6 Handbook?"

Now U know it is not stuck / froze up! Scatterin around the lube was a great idea. What is the next logical step in getting it running? (fire, fuel, air - gotta B at least oneadez)...
BTW: C what turbo has to say in my sig below...& wrk on 1 prt of the system (ign 4 example) and test the result of ur change - B4 going onto the nxt component (more of the ignitish /or/ a totally new part - 'fuel' 4 example). Get'n use a Chilton's or other manual (better yet except for $-is the ford shop manual). Take breaks when U need, but keep at it, it's a complicated puzzle.

Let's C if U can get it running B4 any decisions on junkin the motor or rebuildin it...

Keep intouch as U go!
Last edited by chad on Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

ags290
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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #5 by ags290 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:34 am

I agree with the previous posts, there is no need to give up on what you have yet and certainly no need to scatter the engine based on a 30 second run time. Charge the battery, check your plugs and wires, check your cap and rotor, set the point gap, eyeball your timing, and try again. If the rings are stuck, or the valves are slightly corroded a little run time will help the situation.

Best of Luck,

Kevin
Last edited by ags290 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kevin
Early 1965 Mustang with a 170

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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #6 by CZLN6 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:18 pm

Howdy FM and all:

"I finally got my six to fire for about 30 sec and it quit".

Your description is a strong indication that the engine is not getting a strong, steady supply of gas. To check, first check that gas is being pumped out of the gas line to the carb. To check, disconnect the gas line at the carb. Point the line into a catch can and have someone turn the engine over. If the line and tank are clear and open, and the fuel pump is working, a strong stream of gas should be pulsing into the can. IF not check to make sure the tank and/or line are not plugged. GIven you cars situation there is a good chance the tank is somewhat contaminated/plugged. That gunk can also plug the gas line to the pump.

To determine if it is the tank/line or the pump, disconnect the fuel line from the tank to the pump. If you can lower to line outlet below the tank gravity should allow gas to flow out. IF no gas flows out, you can try blowing compressed air into that fuel line. Be sure to remove the gas filler cap. If air is passing through the line it will be heard bubbling at the gas filler. If no sound, it could be plugged.

IF they are open, next check the fuel pump.

If those components are open and functioning, the next stop is the carb. I don't recall which carb you have, but, if you get to this part, plan on buying a carb rebuild kit for your carb.

If you get to the carb rebuild, check back and we will advise from there.

Good luck and keep it coming.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #7 by rbohm » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:18 pm

B RON CO wrote:Hi, don't give up yet, just charge the battery and try again. All the smoke probably was the Marvel oil, and the back firing could very well be ignition timing. Also check the firing order. Popping up the carb is a sign of a lean condition, and check the point gap. Go over the simple things first. Did you do a compression test? Post the numbers.
You can always open it up later. Rings and bearings are not too expensive, but if you need to bore it it will cost $. Also rebuilding the head costs some money. Good luck


falcon master, start here with what B RON CO said. remember this engine hasnt been started for quite sometime, and depending on the conditions in which is was stored, you will have issues with valves sticking, rings, sticking, etc.

the marvel mystery oil did its initial job in freeing up the engine to actually turn over. now you need to give it a chance to finish the job and free up everything. for instance, run some through the oiling system to free up the rings and valves, and rocker arms, three qts of oil and two qts of marvel mystery oil and a fresh filter, and run the engine at just above idle, around 1500 rpm for about 20 minutes or so and then change the oil and filter should do the trick. remember to keep an eye on oil pressure an engine temperature during that time, you dont want the engine to die on you because it overheated or lost oil pressure.

that should give you a real indication as to whether you need to freshen up the engine or not.
64 falcon
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falcon_master
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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #8 by falcon_master » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:08 pm

Well thanks for the info everyone. That's good because I lost most of my $1,000 budget unexpectedly. I'm down to about $400-500 to amor this thing run and drive. So my new game plan is $120 on tires about another 100 on brakes and then the rest into the interior making it somewhat safe with lap belts and mirrors. Im hoping to not have to spend anything on the engine. I don't know if the balancer is ok. I hope it is because it'll blow the last of my budget to buy a new one. So this is good news thanks everyone.
Junior year high school AFJROTC cadet and car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan,144CI and 3spd column shift. estimated 124,000 miles. Resurrected after sitting outside for 18 years, In process fixing for use as daily driver YouTube channel for repairs coming soon. “Old cars may break but are never broken”-RCR

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chad
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priorities on running a falcon as DD

Post #9 by chad » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:51 pm

Yes, 4 many of us mechanicals R 1st (start, run), then safety (breaks, steer linkage, suspension, lghts, horn) and lastly 'cosmetics'.
My thought is "A total plan 1st": start-to-finish (budget, component use/replacement/upgrade) BUT...
I remember @ ur age I "just wanna get goin". Nuttin wrong w/that, 'research' & 'plan' R for others!
Enjoy! Have Fun! But B safe too...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #10 by powerband » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:28 am

I've been following the suggestions for guiding a low-budget rescue of a reasonably intact old car. Here my $ .02 :

.. for over 15 years I've been running a patched up - bondoed' '63 more-door wagon with a 170/2.8. It used the worn but servicable original ' 63 170 for @ first 5 years while I upgraded brakes , broken springs, sloppy front suspension, fuel tank , etc, working out common recovery gremlins.

When I could afford it, eventually swapped a less expensive NWC ("Non-World Class") '84 V8 geared T5 keeping the original 3.50 rear axle. This low cost setup makes for excellent modern drivability without major mods or money. The 3.50 rear and T5 gearing lets the 170's available torque accelerate well and with the mentioned .63 Overdrive, easily cruises at modern interstate speeds. The 'new' 170 is inexpensive untouched Craig List (V8swap) 1971 Maverick block/cam/etc with only "mods" being a D7 ('77) cyl head milled @ .070 to a combustion chamber volume of @ 48cc's. An E-Bay - Merc' Capri 2.8 V6 Holley/Weber 2Bbl on $15 adapter and dual out header complete the engine 'mods'. Someday I will swap out the OEM points ignition - IF they ever have a problem...

The capable '63 is basically my fair-weather daily driver with the necessary mods being shoulder belts from the '71 Maverick and the dual MC . Original drums , the Mavs' 4 lug14" wheels with 215/70 14's, thicker front sway bar and rear air shocks flatten the old wagons' handling (and load carrying when needed). No intention or need for big-budget horse power or major mods in a good running mostly original car.

An observation over the years: these days the '63 wagon draws more interest at cruises than the big-block - big money - shiny muscle cars of well-off old timers from a long gone era fading from interest of 'millenials' who don't even remember what a Pontiac was ...

haev fun

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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #11 by CZLN6 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:56 am

Howdy PB and All:

Nice ride PB. And a great example of what can be done with a plan, some ingenuity and a limited budget. I'd suggest that you start your own thread to share this to a wider audience. This is, truly, what the Handbook was all about.

Thanks for sharing.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Ford 170 overhaul

Post #12 by bmbm40 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:48 pm

T5 a good performance mod for falcon-master and all six owners really. As stated it has the ability to maximize available torque and the od is one of the most beneficial features for interstate traveling thereby increasing capability and usefulness. That clunky old three speed with those ratios is just not performance oriented.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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chad
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drive line gearing by components

Post #13 by chad » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:48 pm

"...not performance oriented."
local tube chassy, circle trackers round here use the ol 3.03 due to weight & ability to withstand 500 HP.
Wonder which gear they use - 2nd only? Well, may B 2 gears?...I guess?

Yes, a modern transmis is indespencable...make sure to match all 4 (motor, transmis, rear gear, tire) when done...
MPGs & pep? For this car (#1 is given, probably #2 transmis too) how bout 3.55 gear & 15 inch tire?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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