223 Header and intake questions

I rebuilt a stock 223 that runs nice but have been kicking around the idea of putting headers and a multi carb setup on it so I bought an Offenhauser triple carb intake on EBay and also a set of Clifford headers, I noticed that the headers hit the intake in the middle were the flange is that bolts to the original exhaust manifold (heat riser area) it's not alot but will need to be delt with. I'm wondering what is the best route to fit these or what modifications would work. also wondering about heating the intake with water or exhaust through this? any of you guys do this type of set-up? This tri carb project is a first for me and I am mostly looking for some improvement in power and a great vintage hot rod look (It's in a 55 ford car). Thanks in advance for any input or direction.

Brad

Brad, I'm confused! My understanding is there are 2 different approaches;The 'stock' set-up, with the heat riser, also used by Fenton, where the 2 manifolds bolt up together. Or, the 'Clifford' approach, where they DON'T, and, instead, the intake has coolant passages in the bottom, or 'floor'. I have a Clifford intake, and trust me, there is no place for the exhaust manifold to bolt up, and the 'floor' is extra thick, cause of the coolant passages.
So, seems to me with the Clifford headers, the 2 manifolds should clear each other.Maybe someone else can clarify, and we can both learn something! Jim

Bradw is using the Offenhauser Intake of which has the heat riser for mating with the stock exhaust or the Fenton exhaust manifold. In order for him to use th Offenhauser Intake with the Clifford Exhaust he will have to build a block off plate and drill and tap for a pair of water fittings in the plate and bolt this to the bottom of the Offenhauser Intake. I have not seen a Offenhauser Intake and Clifford Exhaust used together this may cause even more interference of parts. Or Bradw can purchase a Clifford Intake @ $400.00.
I was lucky. I finally found a Fenton Exhaust Manifold. Had to buy the complete motor but I now have my Fenton Exhaust.

Thanks for the clarification. While we're on the subject, I have the Clifford intake, which I'm planning on using with the stock exhaust manifold. Bid and won, (E-bay) on a Fenton, but the guy flaked out, so I'm going with the stock. Why?, Well, unconventional is my middle name, I wanted the Clifford intake but don't want headers cause they take up too much room, etc. Anyway, Just got the body back on the frame, after 1 1/2 yrs, Hooray!! So, I'll be getting to this shortly.
I figure I'm going to have to cut out the bottom of the coolant passsage, in the area where the heat riser is, and place studs in the intake manifold, that will extend down, so as to bolt to the exhaust manifold.It should be challenging! Jim

Unimax has it right, I put in what I thought was a low bid on a Offenhauser triple carb manifold on EBay #190319052965 thinking I wouldn't really win it but I did and since I had been kicking the idea around about doing a little hotrodding on my engine I figured now would be the time. I also bought a set of Clifford Headers not realizing there was a difference in the way things bolt up, I just assumed all these multi carb setups went with headers. The clearance issue isn't real bad but it is not a bolt up situation with what I have. The intake came with 3 Holley 1904's which are like the single I'm running now and will need a block off plate and plumbing if I'm going to run water through it. I've heard of guys not heating the intake but think I probably should even though this car won't be driven in the winter. I suppose I'll have to modify it to clear some how. This is my first go at a modification like this but have rebuilt a few engines including the one this is about but they've all been stock. I'm thinking this will be a fun project but it has to run right and look good.

Brad

Can I revive this post? I have the same setup bradw is asking about, except, I’m running the Offy intake with 2 1904 Holley's rather than 3. I am using the Clifford shorty headers on a 54 car. I rebuilt the carbs and worked through the clearance issues, and put it all together for a test fire-up today. Well, Houston, I have a problem. When I fired it up, even though the linkage is hooked up and in idle position, the engine revs like full throttle. I didn't go with the water setup discussed, but plan to after I get a good test fire. I also didn't block the bottom of the intake because I thought the bottom cavity is separated from both exhaust and intake flow. Am I incorrect, and is that why I’m running full throttle on the fire-up. Are the carbs sucking huge quantities of fuel because of the open heat riser cavity? Any help will; be greatly appreciated.

Ford54 - RonC

I also didn't block the bottom of the intake because I thought the bottom cavity is separated from both exhaust and intake flow. Am I incorrect, and is that why I’m running full throttle on the fire-up.

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I have the same Offy 2X1v intake you are correct that bottom cavity is sealed off. If you are still using the stock 54 distributor with your combo it might be the cause. Were did you hook up the vacuum source for the distrib. to test that out just unhook vac. and cap it off? Back in the day most of these old hot rodded 223 motors used a Malory dual point distributor they only have a mechanical advance, instead of the orig. LOD distributor (they don't have any mechanical advance). Now days you could also mod a 300 DuraSpark II or a 1968 up point distributor to fit

Something is holding one or both of the carb butterfly(s) open. The idle could be set to high on both of them or the butterflys could be hitting something such as a gasket or the manifold keeping them open or something could have dropped into a carb and is keeping it open by wedging between the butterfly and carb hole. The advance tube will have nothing to do with the over reving because it is too small to make much difference if leaking and in any case it is connected below the venturi and would not add any gasoline to the mixture, just a small amount of air. My vote would be the idle set to high on both carbs, after all one carb with the idle too high could cause the idle speed to be over 1000 rpm. Two carbs with the idle set to high could cause double the problem: an idle speed of over 2000 rpm. Also one or more of the chokes could be applied which would hold open the butterflies via the fast idle cam. I have also found on those carbs that the throttle shaft sometimes becomes loose on the throttle arm. The idle could be set correctly on the arm, but the butterfly is open to much. There are two flats on the shaft which correspond to two flats in the throttle arm. The end of the arm is swedged onto the throttle shaft, kind of like peened over but gets loose. It usually does not fall off. I usually take the carb off, drain all the gas, grind off the swedged part and braze the shaft onto the throttle arm. The correct poslition of the arm on the shaft needs to be determined and held correctly while being brazed or the idle screw will not work right to control the idle. I usually sink the carb in water just leaving the end of the shaft slightly out of water so it will not melt the shaft into the base casting. On carbs with aluminum base castings THIS IS A MUST. On carbs with teflon or plastlc bushing in the base, it is better to solder the arm to the shaft with the bushing under water to prevent melting the bushing. Soldering is not very strong so everything must be shined up so the solder will sweat into the space between the arm and the shaft like copper pipe soldering and hold it firmly. Also some carbs may have so much wear between the base and the shaft that a fairly large amount of air can leak in. This can cause the engine to only idle, and fast with the choke(s) pulled partly out as this kind of leak is far below the venturi and does not pull in any gasoline.

I forgot the linkage. Unless it is adjusted just right between the carbs, one carb can hold the other carb open enough to make the engine rev to fast. Better start out with the linkage disconnected (and a closing spring on both carbs, get the idle right and then connect up the linkage.

Bubba and FlatFord,
Thank you both so much for responding to my post. Your suggestions helped me solve the problem. As it turned out, I was making a mistaken assumption that the linkage travel to what I'll call the "throttle plumger" before any significant resistance was actually providing considerable accelleration. Once I followed FlatFord's common sense steps, I was able to fire the engine at proper idle speed. I'm still working through some linkage adjustments, but, things are making sense now. Again, thanks very much and I hope to be able to return the favor sometime.
Ford54 - RonC