Turbo Exhaust manifold?

You guys need to quietly, gentley search the forum and really dig deep, the answers are here, mainly from the US, but also from Europe and Australia. Its to Mikes credit that this superb adjunct to FordSixPerformance exists, and it remains for people to simply copy the sucessfull turbo people here and take up the challenge. I totally advocate using stock exhast manifolds, and making the changes that allow your I6 to have a good turbo exhast plumbing.

Most problems are based on the low 7.803" deck height 200 with high mount starter in early Ford X shell chassis. The guys who aren't having problems with turbo mounting are the low mount starter engines, and easier still are the 9.469" deck 250 engines which always have low mount starters. The exception is Georges cross flow, which has no carb on the right hand side, a 9.38" deck and the high mount starter isn't really in the way.

The ideal is this



In practice, high mount 200 engines are actually difficult to turbo within the confines of an X shell engine bay. Battery needs relocating, the turbo needs carefull placement, and if air conditioned, the A/C needs to be relocated and perhaps the alternator too. On 250 and low mount 200's, no thing much needs doing, especially if its in a Fox body or Bronco.

I advocate going to low mount 200 blocks and 250 engines, but if you have a high mount 200, you can simply take a Cologne V6 C3, C4 or C5 bellhousing and the 138 flexplate from the Fox C3, and bolt it to any early Explorer 5R55, C4 or C5 gearbox that can fit the Ranger/Bronco II trans. Just a .0625" alloy or steel plate to allow the V6 bolts to hook up to the stock 2.77 or 3.03 bolt patterns, and the starter is out of the way. An old 200 crank can be cut up to make a spacer to mount the flywheel further out, and some manual transmission bolts will work. The rest is just good turbo plumbing and taking advice from the carb guys who have done turbo swaps.

If you are highmount 200, then expect to need some extra tallent to get it together, but the guys like 66Sprint and others had turbo high mount Mustangs with simple J tubes, so it can be done!.

Once the turbo system gives a clear, well distributed shot to a carb in its stock location, you can then concentrate on the historically better 2-bbl carb turbo systems.Linc 200's and Does10's drag200stang and George are the go to posts to get your head around, cars with big turbos and lots of smarts. And some of them a running very radical cams and simple induction systems, only Does10s and George ended up going the EFI route. When the cam duration is increased for the Ford i6 turbo, it lookes after detonation issues, becasue the stock 200 and 250's are so conservatively timed.

Since most cars here are left hand drive, the simple approach is the 2.8 Cologne and 3.0 Essex V6 turbo engines, all left hand starter engines with the same small 138 bell housings, and a simultanoues 2-bbl 38 Solex or 38 Weber carb. Electronic ignition, and 5.5 to 8.5, with a quite large turbo.

135 to 188 hp, 2-bbl before turbo and after for the Turbo 2.8, 5.5 psi
142 to 230 hp, 2-bbl before turbo and after for the Turbo 3.0, 8.5 psi.

And look at how simple the exhast and hat was for the little Capri V6!





For specifics,

See viewtopic.php?f=22&t=68856

See viewtopic.php?f=22&t=67835
xctasy":91eehwra said:
Take a leaf from Linc 200's and Does10's drag200stang and Georges book.

Lincs and Does10's/ Kelly's you know, but Georges DIY The Turbo Experiemnet is very special. George is a very smart IT guru who makes does specialist blue tooth applications for Holden and other car companies, and makes out he doesn't know much, but he started out many years ago on his journey to I6 Turbo grunt. His Cortina 250 turbo runs a stock engine block with a really strange, almost anti turbo high duration, high lift cam, waste spark igntion, cheap and nasty Wolf 3DEFI, roller rockers, forged pistons but still a stock block, crank and rods with nothing remotely flash asside, and it, um, Does 10's just like Kelly's does. Although its cross flow, its got similar head cfm port flows to any earlier modfifed log head, and less than a 2V 250 or Classic Inlines aluminum head, so you don't need to blow your budget with expensive parts.

See this viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5241

and most importantly, Georges car sold to a new owner, still doing 10's...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43235&p=518852#p518852

Since the early 80's, lots of US and Australian turbo punters have proven you can do 11 second 1/4 miles on blister packed bearing ring seal and gasketed I6's which are in good initial condition. If you control detonation, you can follow through the upgrades to ensure sucess. If you don't have forged rods, your probably okay, but long term, any post 1975 to 1983 200 cube engine core without foeged rods is a long term durabilty risk.

Mods
the ignition (Duraspark, DU1 or simialr update recurved to suit),
the fuel system with a direct mount 2-bbl,
a better cam for increased rev range
and the better later model head.
Follow the right turbo recomendations by Linc.

Note that A stock 200 sits at about 8 to 8.5:1 compression, has a low duration cam for a 4000 rpm power peak, and is the worlds moost undercarbed, and lowest flowing cylinder head around.

Just add a 41 thou thick Permaset/Monotorque composite head gasket like the 15 US dollar Appco AP630 gasket, not the stock steel 25 thou thick job, and that will drop your compression down to a safe 7 to 7.5:1,

Apply a later model head, a better cam and carb, and your good to go .

Plug for a direct mount 2-bbl 32/36 or 38 DG series Weber, and 8 or 9 pounds of boost, and follow Linc 200's set-up. He used a low mount 1983 X-code 3.3 engine, but if you'd like to use a T5 or C3 or Explorer 4 or 5 speed auto bellhousing, I have a kit that eliminates the right hand starter so you can nest the turbo right back down low like Linc did, and still keep your ancillaries in the stock side.

230 horsepower and 270 lb-ft isn't out of reach on a stock engine

That means a bolt on turbo without much effort.

Stock Ford 183 cubic inch, no changes except Duraspark Ignition, a carb hat, turbo and in that case, the engine came out with a DGAS 38 carb anyway. Its not hard to start with a better log head with direct mount 2-bbl and get about 140 hp and 170 lb-ft stock anyway. Most times you get the 120 cfm intake flow you need to create that horsepower. In my opinion, you'd have to use a higher duration aftermarket cam, then turbo it!


xctasy":91eehwra said:
Examples? For 1979- 1986 blow throughs, the Weber DGAS 38 on the 1979 TVR 3000 (230 hp, or 90 hp up on the stock Ford of England Essex 60 degree 3 liter V6).

They had a Paxton Thunderbird/Gale Banks/BroadSpeed blow through carb design which was to put a box around a stock multiple barrel carb, and treat it like it was just a 60% bigger engine.

tvr-sports-cars-9.jpg


Turbo3l.jpg


For example, just an 8.5 psi Holset turbo took a stock 2994 cc 142 hp at 5500 rpm and 172 lb-ft at 3000 rpm engine to a stunning 230 hp and 273 lb-ft. 61.9% power, 58.7% up on torque.


Zoom up to large and see http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggersca ... 674093521/
and http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggersca ... 674093557/
 
Asa":356blzqd said:
For a 200, ole X up there thinks that a Datsun Z's turbo manifold will be closer.

... some more research found the Nissan's to have driver side exhaust and the Supra has passenger - closer to U.S. small block six . Measurement of Supra 3l from #1 to #6 , etc appreciated.

.. like to research a converter type manifold,,,

thanx
 
I decided to see what was new over here and figured I would add to this. I threw this together when I was 17 and it wasnt the most efficient turbo for this job but it worked. The welds held up, despite how sketchy they look in this picture I think I was making another pass when I took the pic. :oops: I ran this setup for awhile made a bunch of passes and sold it on ebay to move to something bigger. The person I sold it to ended up blowing their motor if I recall, I don't even remember who bought it.







This was the "new" setup with a J pipe, again no issues with the welds despite being done by me in high school. The hotside on this turbo was too big. The first turbo was too small. maybe one day I'll try again.

 
I threw this together when I was 17

hasa68mustang


... that's nicer than what I was hoping for , interesting addition to info. first turbo stup actually looks more efficient from what I've read - not thrown together 8) ...

First turbo looks like older Subaloo - IHI?, second looks huge -diesel T4?, ?, I'm trying to spec optimum 200/250 turbo's available for turbo-built strip/street.

thanks
 
powerband":2yaiaksk said:
I threw this together when I was 17

hasa68mustang


... that's nicer than what I was hoping for , interesting addition to info. first turbo stup actually looks more efficient from what I've read - not thrown together 8) ...

First turbo looks like older Subaloo - IHI?, second looks huge -diesel T4?, ?, I'm trying to spec optimum 200/250 turbo's available for turbo-built strip/street.

thanks

Ihi was off of an early 90's probe, picked it up with the factory probe intercooler, blow off valve some piping and other misc stuff shipped to my door for $50 off ebay. The second.... if I remember correctly was linc's turbo off his build with a larger exhaust housing. It was a T3 flanged unit BUT with a 1.00 a/r hotside. :eek:opsie: too big. when I say thre it together I did the whole thing in an afternoon. My current project is a 5.0 sn95 car, for some reason I thought I would be able to do the same. 3 Months later. I miss these inlines.
 
Welcome back hasa68mustang

Or is it hasa95mustang? :rolflmao:


I've been into Fox's since Sept 2011, and they are so simple. Its dead easy to put an inline six into the SN 95. Straight drop in with a Fox sump and an extension to the two front K member mounts. If Florida doesn't allow you to put in a 1963 to 1983 3.3, then you can certainly do so if you fit a propane mixer to an earlier engine in if you meet the requirements.

The work you've done on the 68 is awesome. I was away from 2009 till 2011, and never saw your welded up head mod. I'm very impressed. You moved on the right direction, as the newer Fox derivatives are just as easy to mess with.

If you need a hand, give me a call.

hasa68mustang":l11uu9bv said:
The second.... if I remember correctly was linc's turbo off his build with a larger exhaust housing. It was a T3 flanged unit BUT with a 1.00 a/r hotside. :eek:opsie: too big.


The little IHI is okay if your not going over about 170 hp, so a stock 85 to 92 hp unleaded 8.4:1 3.3 with a bolt on 2-bbl and stock cam will be as far as you can go.

Yeah, I remember that turbo, Lincs 200, where is the man these days? :nod:

The Fox I6 is a world wide revolution, with people all over the world always cutting off the frame horns on Foxes and SN's. Sometimes, they decide to pop the I6 back in like this English due who had an Essex 60 degree Capri GT 3000 engine in his Right Hand Drive ride.

rhd82glx just undid the V6 conversion, which is a 2300 Lima/Cologne/Windsor/Essex 90 v6 style frame horn saw off. Rewelded the bits, and reapplied the little 3.3 liter six. Lots of Europeans Mustang owners are going back to the stock 3.3 block cause they are cheap and easy to rebuild, and you can pick em up from a container anywhere in the world.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachment. ... 1275131733
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachment. ... 1275131783

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachment. ... 1326208684
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachment. ... 1326208798

If you want to put in an I6, you just undo the frame horns cut off from anyone putting a V8 into a 1978 to 1983 Fox body I6. A little networking, and you can do anything.
 
StrangeRanger":1uu2bx3a said:
.....
Fitting a turbo to a long tube header is basically using the wrong tool for the job.

X2 agree.
long tube header will help the engine empty the chamber better so that is has better vacume when the intake valve opens.
Some thing that is completly moot by the pressureized intake charge.
Just look at the headers on a top fuel dragster. just long as needed to not set the rear tires on fire.
 
attempting to understand ( :unsure: ), so as I mentioned: hasa68mustang pictures show IHI with short path to direct-to-manifold flange vs a short but typical "J-Pipe" solution to larger turbo - more accessible in batty area?. ...SO thermally/pressure wise the manifold mount would be preferable?...

worth considering VS J-pipe? , what percentage of turbo spec equation?...

> > 'Hasa68mustang' mentions too big at @1.0 AR. again "AR" figure only part..., torquey inline needs a low rpm spool (smaller-hot) and more air (bigger comp)) for it's optimum powerband ?... what general specs / available turbo's would you consider ?. :: 250 / Turbo Cam / Forged Pistons / ARP / 8.5CR / 2or4Bbl blothru / IC / Ign Elec-boost ctrl/ret box / boost fuel sys / adequate drivetrain / @3000 lbs / = @ 12-13 sec/1320' .

thanks
'need info for build discussions with my friendly machinist


8)
 
I like a J-pipe for several reasons:

It doesn't require any welding to the manifold. That's a fairly minor point - until the welds crack; then it becomes not so minor.
It allows you to get the hot turbine up where it's protected from road splash. Cold water + hot turbine = potential problems
If you use the J-pipe position the turbo forwards as well as up, it can significantly shorten the line from compressor through the intercooler to the T/B or carb.

Jet-Hot coat the J-pipe (and the exhaust manifold) and heat loss becomes insignificant.

Move the battery to a box in the right rear corner of the trunk where it belongs
 
If you use the J-pipe position the turbo forwards as well as up, it can significantly shorten the line from compressor through the intercooler to the T/B or carb

... i do like simple, for proposed build car the battery is already in trunk and access to turbo moving parts is a plus, 'had in mind IC in batt'y location or in fenderwell as 250 with Fox 5.0 radiator and pusher fan is tight in grille.

... what general specs / available turbo's would you consider ?. :: 250 / Turbo Cam / Forged Pistons / ARP / 8.5CR / 2or4Bbl blothru / IC / Ign Elec-boost ctrl/ret box / boost fuel sys / adequate drivetrain / @3000 lbs / = @ 12-13 sec/1320' .

have fun
 
StrangeRanger":elddhjff said:
I like a J-pipe for several reasons:

It doesn't require any welding to the manifold. That's a fairly minor point - until the welds crack; then it becomes not so minor.

:rolflmao: Very true I was always worried about something cracking, but I still do on my newer stang. I would be curious what happened to that first setup and what ever happened to it. When I first welded it together I had no idea that was something "frowned upon" unless you do it really properly.

As for my newer stang needing an inline 6, I dont think I could do it. I do still have an I6 motor in my garage, a couple of spare heads and misc stuff. The 95 car is turbo as well but completely useless as something to drive around.

How much are you looking to spend for a turbo or did you have anything in mind already?
 
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