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jamyers
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Post #51 by jamyers » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:50 pm

I've just become a fan of the JAW, after using it for a week with 2 carbs on the Ranchero.
See the "Jetting a Holley 5200 / Weber 32/36 carb" thread for a rundown of how handy this thing is.
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=372367
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Post #52 by Bort62 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:42 pm

Well, you convinced me. Just ordered mine.

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jamyers
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Post #53 by jamyers » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:19 pm

I'll post some pics of mine and its enclosure box, to give you some ideas. I've already run amok with mine, added a 0-5V panel meter gauge, built a 5V voltage divider for my Buick's MSD box's tach output, as well as a 12-to-5V power source for the upcoming MAP and TPS sensors (again, for the Buick), and a couple of input protection circuits just to be on the safe side.

Now I need a bigger box to fit it all in, along with some sort of nifty connectors for all those wires. :roll:
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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jamyers
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Post #54 by jamyers » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:32 pm

Pics and details of my JAW enclosure are posted in the JAW forums.
http://www.14point7.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8018#8018

Also, a lengthy discussion of my efforts to come up with a CHEAP analog-type AFR gauge is here:
http://www.14point7.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8020#8020
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

Bort62
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Post #55 by Bort62 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:15 pm

Work firewall won't let me see the pics, but I am glad to hear that you are having fun and success w/ the electronics stuff.

I've got a few panel meters in the parts stash, so I will probably make up a box w/ those, a few input connectors, and a DB9 for datalogging output.

I don't think I really need to have the JAW in the car constantly, so I'll make the box modular and then I will only have to buy the one :)

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Post #56 by Bort62 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:18 pm

Hmm, to cross-pollinate here...

jaymers on 14point7.com wrote:jamyers wrote:
I picked up an Eqqus brand basic automotive 8-18V voltmeter yesterday for $12.99 at my local parts store.

Opened it up, measured the resistor (.420K ohms). Multiplied by 5/18th's and I get .116K ohms resistor needed to replace the existing one.

That idea was a bust. What I thought was a resistor was a capacitor (goofy chinese component markings!), and the resistance is made up of the actual copper windings in the gauge innards, with there being 2 sets of windings to get to the non-0 (8V) starting point (see pic). From a short conversation I had with an Equus tech rep, the only way to reduce the resistance would be to completely unwind the outer winding, then remove a percentage of the inner winding, then rewind only a percentage of the outer winding - then check it and very likely do it over and over and over again until you get the right proportions of Coil1, Coil2, and Combined resistance. Ugh.


Here's what I did instead. Went down to the local electronic-supply store and picked up a 0-5V panel meter,

then made up a new face that was numbered from 8-18 instead of 0-5. Glued it to the backside of the metal face, then put it all back together. Ta-dah!


A needle-gauge that indicates from 8 to 18 (AFR) Then I went into JAW Edit and entered my own VOut numbers to get it to indicate to scale.

I plan to set it in the top/face of the JAW enclosure box, right below the digital display. My only issue is that the meter isn't dampened at all, so it jumps a bit more than the AFR's are. But it's easier to see what the AFRs are doing at a glance than trying to read a digital display (at least for this old brain).


Putting an appropriately sized resistor in PARALLEL w/ the equus gauge would low the resistance to the necessary value.
Last edited by Bort62 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #57 by jamyers » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:22 am

Bort62 wrote:Hmm, to cross-pollinate here...

jaymers on 14point7.com wrote:jamyers wrote:
I picked up an Eqqus brand basic automotive 8-18V voltmeter yesterday for $12.99 at my local parts store.
...


Putting an appropriately sized resistor in series w/ the equus gauge would low the resistance to the necessary value.


I do keep overthinking that one, don't I? Problem is calculating the appropriate size is going to be close-guess then trial-and-error, since there's no clear way to get just the resistance of the windings minus the resistance of the movement.
Or am I doin' it again? :lol:

Hey, I'm game for anything - one question though... The capacitor on the Equus was a tiny little thing, wires out each end of a cylinder like a resistor, marked "C2" (need a magnifying glass to see that)...and like a moron, I cut it out when I thought it was a resistor rather than unsoldering it.
Any idea how to determine a suitable replacement?
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Post #58 by Bort62 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:00 am

Oops, I am an idiot. Not series, Parallel.

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Post #59 by Bort62 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:02 am

As far as the cap, you can measure its value if you have the right tools.

It is probably just a filter cap however, in which case something like .1uF should work fine.

To calculate the right R value, just measure the total resistance across the gauge, use the parallel resistor formula, and back it out.

Or, you can wimp out - get an potentiometer in the 0-1k range, hook it up in parallel with the gauges windings.

Then hook it up to something providing the same voltage your JAW will @ say 10:1, and adjust the POT until the gauge reads 10. Calibrate it @ a few steps.

Then, take it of, measure it - and use that value.

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Post #60 by jamyers » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:08 am

OK, I'll snag a cap and go with it.

Now, I've got .512K ohms across the + and - terminals of the gauge, so a resistor added PARALLEL means it would be also across the + and - terminals, yes?

Found this online, it's the "parallel resistor formula" right?
r=(r1*r2)/(r1+r2) where r is the equivalent resistance of 2 resistors r1 & r2
OK, so:
* To lower the gauge's sensitivity from 18V to 5V, I need to lower the resistance by 5/18, or .27778.
* So I multiply the existing gauge's resistance by .27778, and get .512K X .27778 = .14222K resistance.
* I then plug .512 in as R1 in the above parallel resistance formula, and see what it takes to get R=.14222, which is .1969 (yields R=.14221)

So I need to add .1969K ohms of resistance across the + and - gauge terminals, right?

What about the scaling, as in the original gauge wasn't from 0-18V, and the signal it's going to get is going to be 0-5V - or am I overthinking it again?

I need more coffee. 8)
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Post #61 by Bort62 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:30 pm


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Post #62 by jamyers » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:47 pm

Well, that idea is truly a bust, at least with the gauge I've got. I tried both methods (math and potentiometer), hooking them up between the gauge poles, inner winding, and outer winding - and the gauge just won't register much more than enough to barely move the needle, let alone go to full travel. I did get a couple of resistors REALLY hot, though... :shock: I think that the double-coil construction of this automotive gauge just doesn't behave like a "normal" voltmeter, probably due to the 8V startpoint (?).
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James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

Bort62
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Post #63 by Bort62 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:51 pm

Well, if you lived closer I would tell ya to come over... haha

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Post #64 by wallaka » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:38 pm

Down to 29 cylinders!
2006 Porsche Cayman H6, 1968 Mercury Monterey big block (390), 1967 F-100 240, 1965 Mercury Comet 404 (200), 2009 Triumph Street Triple

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jamyers
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Post #65 by jamyers » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:55 pm

I got the JAW with a digital display, I was trying to get an analog needle-type gauge to work alongside the digital one - easier to see changes on a real gauge.
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Post #66 by wallaka » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:21 pm

Ah. This is one of the few threads I haven't read all that thoroughly.
Down to 29 cylinders!
2006 Porsche Cayman H6, 1968 Mercury Monterey big block (390), 1967 F-100 240, 1965 Mercury Comet 404 (200), 2009 Triumph Street Triple

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Post #67 by Lazy JW » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:03 am

jamyers wrote:Well, that idea is truly a bust, at least with the gauge I've got. I tried both methods (math and potentiometer), hooking them up between the gauge poles, inner winding, and outer winding - and the gauge just won't register much more than enough to barely move the needle, let alone go to full travel. I did get a couple of resistors REALLY hot, though... :shock: I think that the double-coil construction of this automotive gauge just doesn't behave like a "normal" voltmeter, probably due to the 8V startpoint .....


You need a gauge with about a million ohms per volt input impedance to even have a chance of success.
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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Post #68 by Bort62 » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:45 am

Yeah, Joe is right. When I suggested the above, I forgot that you were driving it from the JAW's output.

You could also use an op amp.

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Post #69 by jamyers » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:00 pm

Well, since the 0-5V panel meter is working pretty well, and I don't think I'll use my JAW as a permanent install, I've set the 8-18 gauge idea aside (for now).

Now I'm trying to rig up a TPS mount for the H/W 5200 carb. Whee!
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Post #70 by Bort62 » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:17 pm

JAW just showed up today I am told...

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