All Small Six Carb identification?

This relates to all small sixes

Dunk

New member
Anyone know what carb this is? It's on a '64 Falcon with 170. Distributor is LOM, will be swapping to a normal distributor soon. Verified tonight the current LOM has .515" OD on the drive and 5/16" oil pump drive. The carb doesn't seem to have the spark control valve to work the LOM, performance is terrible and driveability is odd, feels like timing isn't advancing anything like it should.

Not sure how to attach pictures here. The carb is a 1 barrel and has Motorcraft cast into the passenger side as mounted. Casting marks on the driver side as mounted, in the circle on fuel bowl are:
6R
3507
B

Below the circle:
A-1

Fuel inlet is into the lower casting rather than the top part as it seems the original '64 carb would be. It has a manual choke. There is a vacuum hose run from a port on the carb to the distributor, which has a cut off section of steel line to the diaphragm.
 
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Hi and welcome to the Ford Six Forum Dunk, The 1960 to 1964 Small Six engines would all have had the smaller lower Block Pilot Hole and the 1/4 Inch Oil Pump Drive Shaft so the 1965 up Distributors will not fit into them without some work. If yours has the 5/16 Inch Oil Pump Drive shaft then you would probably have a newer engine swapped into your 1964, you should find the Casting / Design Numbers on the Block and Head and their Casting Date Codes to ID them. Your Motorcraft Carb is likely a Holley 1940 version replacement Carb. Some picture posting info is here https://fordsix.com/threads/topic-images-signatures-and-avatars.48863/#post-369519 however you can also post from a Smart Phone or "Drag & Drop" from your Computer too. Good luck
 
Looks like maybe a Holley 1940. Rebuild kit to order for this, preferably available at parts store? PN or application since I'm guessing these were factory for some cars given teh Motorcraft branding? How to tell size/CFM compared to whatever originally came on this engine?

It won't let me drag and drop from the computer, I only see an option to insert picture from URL, which I don't have. I tried google photos but it won't let me insert here, but here is the link to the album:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C6VK8bYyHA6WgVRA7
 
Yes you have the Holley 1940 Carb Ford used these as replacements for the Autolite 1100 Carbs when Autolite stopped making carb's in about 1969. The Holley 1940 Carb Kit for a Ford application will look like this and you should be able to find it at most any auto parts store or online if you have the Carb Tag all then better. https://www.carburetor-parts.com/k1138-1940-carburetor-kit

In your pictures I can clearly see the Heads Design Number C6DE-6090-B Head Design Number and the Casting Date Code of 7A22

These Design Numbers and Letters Decode as follows
C = Decade of design (1960's)
6 = Year of decade (1966)
D = Car line (Falcon)
E = Engineering Department (Engine)
6090 = Fords Basic part number (Cylinder Head)
B = Design change (second revision of part design)

The Casting Date Code is 7A22 this decodes as
January 22, 1967 so you have a much newer 1967 Log Head, Now you need to look for the Blocks Design Numbers and Date Code I won't trust that the short Block engine Tag is right for the Block.

I copied your Carb Picture onto my computer and then used the Attachment Feature in the bottom left hand corner of the posting to attach it. This works for most any JPG File type or most Picture's, some of the Pictures online are a different File type and won't work unless you are able to copy them and convert into a JPG File. Good luck
 

Attachments

  • Motorcraft Holley 1940 1V Carb.jpg
    Motorcraft Holley 1940 1V Carb.jpg
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I got a carb kit at NAPA today. Now that I have the carb off I see it's a D7JL 9510 A 7937 2284. Looking up D7JL 9510 A comes up with various applications from 200 small six to 300 big six.

Bigger carb, cool more power and such when set up with the right distributor. Problem is, the intake adapter is appreciably smaller than the carb base, which has a vacuum passage to one side that has nothing to seal against. Quick and dirty so I can move the car easily I could double gasket and make a wider spacer plate since the bore ID is similar (spacer is stepped larger at carb side). Is there a factory or aftermarket adapter or different spacer I could use to run this carb on this head?

Is the '67 log head better or worse or just different than typical '64 parts? The block casting number is C4DE 6015-1. Not sure where the date code on these are? Any way to tell if this was factory or swapped to a later engine? 170 or 200 externally identifiable? This car feels slower than the 144 in my '63 Falcon way back when. Memory can be fuzzy but I'm sure it's because the massive vacuum leak and mismatched carb and LOM distributor.

I added more pictures of today's carb/intake mismatch to the google images link. Carb bits are in the ultrasonic now, I can at least get the carb back together tonight, if I can figure where the bits go. Never been in one of these before and I dropped the accelerator pump check ball and little brass hex piece that I assume is to accelerator pump related. Haven't looked close yet but I'm not sure where they go.
 
No there aren't any larger Bore Carb Adapter Plates made for the Small Log Heads, so yes you can mod the one you have some more by opening it up into a longer funnel shape or all the way down if you wanted to also open up the Heads Log Carb opening Hole to a minimum of 1 3/4 inch or more in the Head this will all help the intake flow quite a bit better than. As For the top not sealing you could make a simple Aluminum or even a thin steel plate to adapt the two sizes together and seal the Vacuum Channel.

Looks like you have a big bore Holley 1940 Carb this maybe off of a 240 / 300 big six then. The 1967 Log Head is still a Small Log there isn't much of a difference in all of them or the other than a larger Intake & Exhaust Valve's in 1965 to 1968 compared to the other 1960 to 1964 170 & 200 Six Small Log Heads. There is also some difference in the Combustion Chamber sizes between the 170 & 200 Six Heads is usually a 48 CC for a 170 or 52 CC for a 200 Six. If you happen to have a 200 Six Head on a 144 or 170 block than it would be down on Compression quite a bit.

The much better Log Heads for performance are the Large Logs from 1969 to 1983 they are way better than the older heads.

So yes that is a 1964 Short Block by the Design Code Numbers at least until you also find the Casting Date code so it might even still be the original engine block to the car. What doesn't make sensei is it having the lager Distributor Pilot Hole for the later Distributors but it could of been Moded at one time when the engine was apart for repairs without much trouble. In any case that opens the door for you to use many of the better distributors like a 1968 to 1974 Point Distributor or going on up to a DuraSpark II electronic type. As for other quirk ways to ID's that engine block here is one way All 200 Six will have 5 Freeze Plugs in the side of the block and all the 144's or 170's Small Six's will only have 3 Freeze Plugs. Good luck
 
Thanks. I have 16ga on hand, might have something thicker. Even 16ga would probably be enough to go the extra 1/8"-1/4" larger for an adapter plate for the slightly larger carb base to seal against. I'd like to open the log opening to match the carb but I'm hesitant while the head is on the engine, no guarantee to get all the chips. I'll check freeze plugs tomorrow to see if it's a 170 or 200, and see if I can find a date code on the block.

Long term plans for this car may be a 302, undecided. It's the wife's car, she wants more power. I've always wanted to build a higher output six and she already has a Tbird with a strong FE so maybe a fun six project is in the works. Short term goal is just get it suitable for every day use while we swap her daily driver Bronco II from 2.9 to 4.0. It's EFI so I figure it'll take me a bit to figure out how to make the fancy new stuff work. After that this Falcon will be a fair weather driver and fun weekend car. I foresee swapping the 3 speed for a T5 relatively quickly. While I enjoy the novelty of 3 on the tree and unsynchronized first gear I suspect the boss will not enjoy it once we get the basics sorted and she drives it.
 
Thanks. I have 16ga on hand, might have something thicker. Even 16ga would probably be enough to go the extra 1/8"-1/4" larger for an adapter plate for the slightly larger carb base to seal against. I'd like to open the log opening to match the carb but I'm hesitant while the head is on the engine, no guarantee to get all the chips. I'll check freeze plugs tomorrow to see if it's a 170 or 200, and see if I can find a date code on the block.

Long term plans for this car may be a 302, undecided. It's the wife's car, she wants more power. I've always wanted to build a higher output six and she already has a Tbird with a strong FE so maybe a fun six project is in the works. Short term goal is just get it suitable for every day use while we swap her daily driver Bronco II from 2.9 to 4.0. It's EFI so I figure it'll take me a bit to figure out how to make the fancy new stuff work. After that this Falcon will be a fair weather driver and fun weekend car. I foresee swapping the 3 speed for a T5 relatively quickly. While I enjoy the novelty of 3 on the tree and unsynchronized first gear I suspect the boss will not enjoy it once we get the basics sorted and she drives it.
Easy job to do just stuff a couple of rags on both sides of the Carb Hole opening into Log then do your grinding after that use a Shop Vacuum to clean it out after your done grinding. As for more power there are many things you can do to get more power out of these small six's. That's going to be great Trans swap going to the T5 its an excellent Transmission and gearing that really changes how these smaller Fords drive. good luck
 
Take the head off. It is not a big deal. While you are at it get the exhaust valve hardened seats installed and get the head checked for valve guides and a valve job. It is for your wife's daily driver so get it as best you can to avoid problems later. Also get studs for the head.
 
Easy job to do just stuff a couple of rags on both sides of the Carb Hole opening into Log then do your grinding after that use a Shop Vacuum to clean it out after your done grinding. As for more power there are many things you can do to get more power out of these small six's. That's great the T5 is an excellent Transmission swap that really changes how these smaller Fords drive.
Do this and add a magnet to the bottom of the plenum before grinding.
 
Thanks Frank, good tip on the magnet. I noticed today after making the spacer plate to wider the flange for the big bore 1940 carb that most of the restriction is in the aluminum spacer that coolant flows through. Biggest restriction is on the passenger side away from water, I could open it up easily there but there is also an appreciable restriction on the driver side toward where water and I doubt I could open that up all the way. No idea how thin it might be. I left it as it is as we have bigger fish to fry, and that's an easy thing to open up or gasket match the spacer any time.

alwill923, I get the sentiment but until we decide if we're doing a six or small block build for this Falcon I don't want to spend too much time on it, just get it running reliably. It was a one family car before us, spent a number of years in CA used only to take trash cans down to the street apparently. Eventually "restored" 15 years ago and used as a weekend cruiser, shows, etc. It's also not the wife's daily driver yet, her Bronco II is getting a new 4.0 OHV engine, waiting for it to get back from machine work on the block.

I also confirmed the Falcon has a 170, three freeze plugs instead of five for a 200. If we did a six build we would get a 200 or 250 since time and money would be similar. My time is divided among too many projects, I'd rather pick a direction first. Hardened seats are costly and can fail/drop. My machinist advised me that he would do it but probably not worth the cost and risk when doing the FE build. I've run so many heads with questionable stuff lapped in or ground seats by hand over the years never had hardened seats and put hundreds of thousands of miles on them with unleaded fuel. On a small block, if we go that route, I'd never bother with factory iron heads or porting anymore given the lower cost and readily available aluminum heads. Probably same for a 460 next time I build one. Maybe not so easy or simple a decision with a small six though. I see the aluminum head is on backorder.

In any event I got the 1940 carb back together, made a adapter/spacer plate out of 16ga steel, and bolted the carb back on. It runs much better without the massive vacuum leak. Should have the normal mechanical/vacuum advance distributor installed this weekend. Clutch and shift linkage adjustment and figure out the slop in the accelerator linkage and I think it'll pretty good for now.

We spent some time this evening wire wheeling some surface rust in the trunk of this car and Ospho in the trunk, wheel well to quarter seams, etc. It's a solid car underneath but needs treatment of surface rust and such. Biggest issue with this one is the convertible drain gutter is rotted and needs replaced or patched. Nobody seems to make this for '64-'65 Falcon or '65-'66 Mustang. Should be simple to make something that will work but I'm not looking forward to fixing that with a good condition top... But it needs to be done sooner than later since this one will see weather until the Bronco II has a new engine and we're coming up on wet season.
 
Just a note for future reference if you decide to build a Six: The 1975 through 1983 200's & 250 Six's were all designed for Un-Lead Fuel use so those are the Heads to use and look for without needing the hard seats put in. Good luck
 
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Dunk- good progress! It's good to have a plan. Between the vacuum leak and no distributor advance, no one would want to drive that slug. Adding the new dist and the refreshed carb, will give you and the wife a better baseline on if the 6 will be a keeper or not. (y)
 
Just wanted to update that after getting the carb issues sorted, sloppy accelerator linkage fixed, and Chinese HEI distributor installed it runs much better. Cheaped out on distributor since we aren't sure if this will stay a six or get a small block. I'll put the loadomatic in the trunk in case I need a quick and dirty to get it home if the distributor fails.

The 170 is set up for a larger 5/16" oil pump drive late model distributor and oil pump. The head has the larger thread temp sensor. I found a brass plate on the bellhousing area on driver side, which makes me suspect it's a rebuilder engine swapped at some point. It'll work for now, next year might build whatever it'll get long term.

In the interim I've rebuilt the quarter window regulators, new roller bushings, adjusted the glass, adjusted the top (closer to what it should be), and patched the rear floor under the back seat. That rotted drain channel resulted in some rotted floor which doesn't surprise me but wasn't too bad to fix. Heater box is out for rebuild and new blower motor once I get the rusty squirrel cage separated and I'm about ready to start on the convertible drain channel. Looks like PO filled it with something at some point, which probably worked for a while but made it worse long term.
 
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