Cometic MLS Head Gaskets

Thickness

  • .027

    Votes: 34 75.6%
  • .038

    Votes: 17 37.8%
  • .050

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • other

    Votes: 3 6.7%

  • Total voters
    45

AzCoupe

1K+
Departed Member
I'm wondering how many guys would buy a Cometic MLS head gasket, if they were available, and in what thickness? I've considered ordering them, but since they are a custom gasket, I have to pay for the tooling up front. I don't want to spend the money if the gaskets are just going to sit on the shelf, but if enough guys want one, I'll place the order.

Thicknesses would be .027, .038, .050. Price would be around $160, which is the Suggested Retail Price. Once the tooling is done I can order custom gaskets in any thickness (.027 min - .140 max), as well their Phuzion gaskets, which are great for boosted motors.

MLS stands for Multi-Layer Steel. Cometic Performance MLS Head Gaskets are comprised of three layers of stainless steel. The outer layers are an embossed viton coated stainless steel providing a superior seal with excellent rebound characteristics and are corrosive resistant. MLS head gaskets reduce bore distortion and withstand extreme cylinder pressures. Embossments on the MLS gasket also allow for proper seal around oil and water passages.

Here's an article I found on the internet, which explains the advantages of MLS gaskets.
WHY MLS?

One thing no engine builder wants to worry about is a head gasket failure, whether it is a NASCAR cup engine, a Pro Stock drag racing engine, a hot street engine, or even a stock engine. Stock head gaskets hold up well enough under normal loads, but as compression ratios and pressures go up, stock head gaskets begin to fail. And once hot combustion gasses start blowing past the gasket's combustion armor, bad things begin to happen. The combustion armor cracks or burns through, compression is lost, and the oil and coolant start finding new ways to circulate inside the engine, often with negative consequences.

Over the years, performance engine builders have used a variety of tricks to keep their engines sealed such as using wire O-rings around combustion chambers and running solid copper head gaskets. Various kinds of sealing solutions have also been developed by aftermarket gasket manufacturers for sealing high performance engines such as high temperature graphite and non-asbestos composition gaskets with special coatings and beefed up combustion armor, head gaskets with stainless steel or copper wire rings inside the combustion chamber armor for added reinforcement, and head gaskets with oversized wire rings and combustion chamber armor that function similar to O-rings.

One of the hottest products to emerge in recent years for high performance engines are Multi-Layer Steel (MLS) head gaskets. MLS gaskets first appeared on many Japanese engines in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and were later adopted by Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors.

The latest alternative to reinforced composite head gaskets and copper head gaskets for performance engines are MLS gaskets. Unlike these other types of gaskets, MLS gaskets use a different strategy to seal the combustion chamber. They typically use 3 to 5 layers of stainless steel to create a spring-like effect that seals the gap between the head and block.

As engine compression, rpm and combustion pressure go up, the cylinder head is pushed away from the block every time the cylinders fire. The movement isn't enough to be seen with the naked eye, but it can be measured - and it can be enough to break the seal between the head and block with conventional gasket designs. The amount of lift depends on cylinder pressures and how much the head bolts stretch.

To maintain the seal when the head is pushed up and away from the block, the head gasket has to expand as the head lifts. This requires a certain amount of springiness or elasticity that can only be achieved with an MLS head gasket. The multi-layer construction of MLS head gaskets allows the inner layer(s) to act something like a valve spring. As the head lifts away from the block, the inner layer(s) of the gasket push the outer layers apart to maintain the seal. The spring steel expands and contracts without taking a permanent set or deforming under load, and the gasket maintains its seal. That's why MLS gaskets have more "vertical recovery" than other types of gaskets and can handle high pressure applications.

In a stock engine, the maximum combustion pressures may only reach about 1,000 psi. But in a performance engine, they can reach 1,500 to 2,200 psi under race conditions, and soar as high as 3,500 psi if the engine goes into detonation. The higher the pressure, the greater the cylinder head separation from the block - and the more the gasket has to expand and contract to maintain its seal.

Aftermarket MLS performance gaskets are engineered for racing and are not just copies of the OEM style gaskets. They have strategically placed sealing beads around the combustion chambers and coolant passages to concentrate clamping loads in the most critical areas. Some MLS gaskets have an additional stainless steel "stopper ring" to further increase sealing pressure around the combustion chambers (such as in Chevy LS1/LS6 engines). One gasket supplier (Cometic) has a line of MLS performance gaskets that incorporate a unique "gas-filled ring" around the combustion chambers. The pressure inside the ring is 600 to 700 psi, and increases as the engine heats up to increase the clamping load and combustion seal. Features like these have enabled MLS gaskets to become the gasket of choice for many forms of racing as well as street performance applications.

The all-steel construction of MLS gaskets makes them almost bullet-proof under even the most extreme operating conditions. The gaskets also have an exterior "Viton" or polymer coating that helps them cold seal on less than ideal surfaces. Most original equipment MLS require extremely smooth finishes (20 to 30 Ra) to seal, while most performance MLS gaskets require a surface of 50 Ra or less. Some have thicker coatings that can accommodate surface finishes as rough as 60 Ra. (NOTE: The gaskets I'll be ordering require 50 Ra)

As for reusability, as long as the gasket appears to be in good condition when it is removed, many racers find they can reuse MLS gaskets with no problems. If the surface coating has a damaged spot or two, it can often be repaired with a light coating of RTV silicone.

Many racers who used to run copper heads gaskets have switched to MLS because the gaskets hold up just as well and don't have the sealing or installation issues associated with copper gaskets. The only drawback with MLS gaskets are their price.

The multi-layer construction of MLS head gaskets requires expensive precision tooling, and 3 to 5 layers of stainless steel. Consequently, the jobber price for a performance MLS head gasket for a small block Chevy V8 is around $70 to $75 (per side). What's more, on some applications the cost is even higher because of limited volume or availability. The jobber price for a MLS performance head gasket for a sport compact engine such as Mitsubishi 2.0L, for example, might be as high as $170. Of course, you only have to buy one for a four cylinder (instead of two for a V8). An inline six is higher yet, as they are longer and require more material. Some customers might balk at the cost, but considering the durability these gaskets are capable of providing, paying top dollar for a gasket that won't blow out or fail is more than worth the money. And unlike composition gaskets that cannot be reused, MLS gaskets don't have to be replaced every time the head comes off the engine.
 
It would be nice to have something close to the original thickness.

I vote for the 0.027.
 
oldgrezmonke":2ua4590w said:
$160 each gasket ? How much do you have to pay for the tooling ?

How much is a 0.027 head gasket worth to you when they aren't available?
 
oldgrezmonke":3nimndk1 said:
$160 each gasket ? How much do you have to pay for the tooling ?

First, I'm not certain the price is correct, as that was what they quoted me three years ago. It may have gone up a little since then? However even if they are $200 bucks, they're worth the price. They won't fail, and they can be reused over and over, as long as they are in good condition and handled properly. Do a search and see how many topics you find, where guys are having sealing problems with stock gaskets? I know of four guys right now, that have coolant seepage. On top of that, we can make them in any thickness we want, from .027 up to .140, which is also a huge advantage. And finally, the option of adding a gas filled O-ring for boosted applications is immeasurable. Not only do they work better, they are cheaper than cooper head gaskets, not to mention what you'd pay to o-ring the block.

I added a note up top, that explains the advantages in more detail.

Lets just say it's a HUGE junk of cash..... ;)
 
It seems many folks would build an engine that would not need that level of head gasket sealing at the price.

if I was to build a turbo - blown engine , then I would need a top quality gasket
 
The engine I am building is already 0 decked and with 52cc chambers and dished pistons, my compression is about 9.2:1 with the gaskets that are available. I would like to get the compression a little higher but don't want to mill the head any more. I would be willing to spend the money for an 0.038 gasket to get better quench characteristics and a little more compression, especially if it seals as well as advertised and can be re-used.
 
Wow, if they are reusable, then that makes it much more worthwhile!

AzCoupe":2jlieb5y said:
oldgrezmonke":2jlieb5y said:
$160 each gasket ? How much do you have to pay for the tooling ?

First, I'm not certain the price is correct, as that was what they quoted me three years ago. It may have gone up a little since then? However even if they are $200 bucks, they're worth the price. They won't fail, and they can be reused over and over, as long as they are in good condition and handled properly. Do a search and see how many topics you find, where guys are having sealing problems with stock gaskets? I know of four guys right now, that have coolant seepage. On top of that, we can make them in any thickness we want, from .027 up to .140, which is also a huge advantage. And finally, the option of adding a gas filled O-ring for boosted applications is immeasurable. Not only do they work better, they are cheaper than cooper head gaskets, not to mention what you'd pay to o-ring the block.

I added a note up top, that explains the advantages in more detail.

Lets just say it's a HUGE junk of cash..... ;)
 
What is the expected lead time for delivery of first product from the date you make the decision to proceed?
 
I'm definitly interested. I would not be able to tell you right now what thickness. The setup I have now was to show a complete out of the box Aluminum Head and 390 CFM Holley build. When I get to the point of working the head I'm sure the compression will drop, I would need a thinner gasket to recover or increase the compression. If I go to a turbo, even after the head work, I would probably need the thicker gasket.

I would be a future customer at least, Ric.
 
The MLS Head Gaskets would be an AWESOME addition to the Classic Inlines Product Line. The Advantages Mike Lists are worth their weight in Gold especially for boosted and high C.R. applications.

I haven't fired up my turbo 250 yet but if the gaskets were to come out in the coming months I would wait.

0.027 is my vote. ;-)
 
I would gladly purchase a a gasket under .030. I'm using steel shim OEM gasket on the 170 and there is no source for OEM 200/250 steel shim gaskets I'm aware of. Reliability of MLS would be an advantage. The steel shim for 144/170 is available as Ford 144/170 CODE-6051C .

PS Anyone have a used OEM steel shim from a 200/250 in good shape for experimenting?. I threw away a few that I could kick myself...
I believe needs to be: Ford 200/250CID; C3OZ-6051A or C5AZ-6051B or D3DE-6051AA or C9DZ-6051B

Thanks

Powerband

100_2003.jpg
 
I would definitely buy at least one! My preference would be for the .038" gasket. It would give a perfect quench clearance between the piston and head if you machined the block to zero deck.
 
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