With a '74 250 thrown in for free! Getting them home and unloaded will be a problem for me though. And I was just looking for a drop-in spare 200 for my '66 Mustang. But the low-mount starter block is anything but a drop in, and if I don't want to swap a lot of parts like the oil pan off of my original engine, I'll have to find them. I'm not sure just where that low-down starter goes, but I wonder if my exhaust system would be in the way. And will my C4 fit, didn't they use a C5? Seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth if I'm not using it for some special project that takes advantage of its differences. If I was younger and my left knee healthier, I'd probably use it to put in a five speed. I may just grab the head and a few other parts and look for another block. I don't know, what say you? If I decide to pass I'll pass it on here.
All Small Six I've Got An Opportunity To Pick Up An '83 Low-Mount Starter 200
- Thread starter TrickSix
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
Dragonlich1961
Well-known member
The low mount 200 block uses a diffrent starter( standard v8 starter) bolted below the oil pan line. A standard I6 oil pan and pick up will swap. A modified v8 c4 bell can be used to bolt the low mount 200 to a c4.( At least i think) As this is a popular swap to make for those with a 200 wanting to make big power( 250-400) as the 9 inch clutch available to a standard 200 can't hold the power. Using a modified v8 bell allows the use a of a v8 clutch 10-11 inches.
There is some good info on the low starter 200 here:
Foxbody 200 straight six
Hi what is needed to get a t5 behind a straight six. I have a t5. Not sure what bell to use.
vb.foureyedpride.com
Thanks for the info. I'd never bothered to learn much about these engines because I didn't have one and you seldom see them anyway. I've studied up now, and yes, they can be an opportunity for some people and their projects. But for what I'm looking for it's probably more like a can of worms.
If you don't get the low mount 200, at least get the head. It should be an E0 or E1 casting which has the largest log volume and valves.
The head will bolt up to the 250.
The low mount 200 would be no more difficult to swap into your 66 Mustang than the '74 250. A V8 C4 bellhousing will fit both engines and the 250 flexplate will work on the 200 (after redrilling the flange for the smaller 200 bolt pattern). Your C4 should bolt to the V8 bellhousing, so no need to get a replacement.
Depending where you live, someone may be interested in the low mount 200 shortblock (after you remove the head).
I'd be interested in it if I was close enough.
The head will bolt up to the 250.
The low mount 200 would be no more difficult to swap into your 66 Mustang than the '74 250. A V8 C4 bellhousing will fit both engines and the 250 flexplate will work on the 200 (after redrilling the flange for the smaller 200 bolt pattern). Your C4 should bolt to the V8 bellhousing, so no need to get a replacement.
Depending where you live, someone may be interested in the low mount 200 shortblock (after you remove the head).
I'd be interested in it if I was close enough.
I have been wanting to get ahold of one of the Low Mount Big Bell Blocks for several years to experiment with, I would likely use a C4 or AODE Auto Trans behind it. It would be a tight fit trying to use one of them in some of early body Falcons and Comets models though (specially the 1960 up to the first half of the 1962's). Good luck Edited
Wouldn't be any harder than shoehorning a V8 into one. That has been done.
What I was talking about was in fitting one of them into a 1960 to early 1962 Falcon or Comet before Ford Changed the Transmission Tunnels to get them ready for the V8's in mid 1963. Not that it couldn't be done only that it would be harder to do than the later ones.
All the round body Falcons have a short engine compartment.
A 200 with 65 water pump with no fan spacer has about 1" of fan to radiator clearance.
Some people claim less clearance with today's new radiators.
You can only run a fan without a spacer if you have a one groove damper.
The long 250 water pump requires the radiator to be moved forward.
My 63 had a 250 with the head off in it when I bought it.
The bell housing was a tight fit to the firewall.
The brake line on the firewall had worn almost all the way thru from rubbing on the bell housing.
The radiator support had been hacked to move the radiator forward.
I pulled the 250 junked it then installed a 65 200.
falconparts .com sells the one groove 65 water pump pulley that goes with the one groove damper.
If a 6 cylinder or V8 is being installed in a round body Falcon planning for fan to radiator clearance should be a priority not something to be solved later with an electric fan fiasco.
A 200 with 65 water pump with no fan spacer has about 1" of fan to radiator clearance.
Some people claim less clearance with today's new radiators.
You can only run a fan without a spacer if you have a one groove damper.
The long 250 water pump requires the radiator to be moved forward.
My 63 had a 250 with the head off in it when I bought it.
The bell housing was a tight fit to the firewall.
The brake line on the firewall had worn almost all the way thru from rubbing on the bell housing.
The radiator support had been hacked to move the radiator forward.
I pulled the 250 junked it then installed a 65 200.
falconparts .com sells the one groove 65 water pump pulley that goes with the one groove damper.
If a 6 cylinder or V8 is being installed in a round body Falcon planning for fan to radiator clearance should be a priority not something to be solved later with an electric fan fiasco.
Thanks again for sharing all your experience and knowledge. I'll be going to see what is actually in the pile tomorrow. I've only seen a picture of the distributor side of the '83 engine, with a brief description. So it's possible it's actually a high-mount starter version. I might take the whole thing if it is, probably just the head if it isn't. It does have the oil pan sump in the rear of the engine, and the dip-stick back there too, I can see that in the one pic. If it is a high-mount starter block, even if it is an '83, will that still have the dual pattern on the back of the block so my '66 bellhousing and C4 will bolt up? How much trouble is it to get the oil pan configured correctly? Do I need a whole new oil pickup/pump assembly, or can it just be turned around or something? Would the oil pan or pickup on the 250 fit and work? And then is there still a spot to drill out to relocate the dipstick? I'm just looking for an easy to swap back and forth spare for my original 200, and this one is so cheap and fairly close to my middle of nowhere town. I'd like to make it work if it's easy enough.
First off the 200 Six Low Mount Starter Engines are a lot more rare these Short Blocks and were built in small numbers just to be used with the 1982 Fox Chassis Model's that also had the new for 1982 C5 Automatic Transmissions (also having a Lock Up Torque Convertor) such as in the Mustangs and Mercury Capri's. The last year of the C4 Auto Transmissions was at the end of the 1981 year Models, these newer Blocks were only used maybe about 2 1/2 years (starting around late June or early July of 1981 when the New 1982 Models were starting to be assembled) until end of 1983 year models. Some people don't seem to realize or know and when you go searching on the internet its loaded with bad info on these engines. Other than having 2 / 3'rds of the SBF V8 Bell Housing Bolt Pattern these 200 Six's are the same in their dimensions as the the other 200 Six engines that were slightly Moded for the 1978 and up to 1983, Fox Chassis Cars. The High Mount Starter Blocks were also used for all other (the vast majority of the) 200 Six's that had the Manual Transmissions (until around end of 1981 when those were no longer offered) and many others used the C3 Transmissions both of those were with a High Mount Starter until the end of both the 200 & 250 Six engine use at the end of the 1983 Model Production.
Yes if the block is one of the more common High Mount Starter Blocks then it will have the Duel Bolt Patterns on it just like all the other 1966 to 1981 200 Six Blocks did. Yes your 1966 Small Bolt Pattern C4 will also bolt right up just like it would on any of the 1960 to 1965 Single Pattern Short Blocks (144, 170, or a 200) as well as all the 1966 to 1981 Dual Pattern Blocks as well as most of the 1982 and 1983 High Mount Blocks.
No the 250 Six Oil Pan and Oil Pick up won't fit onto any year of the 200 Six Short Blocks the 250's are a much wider engine Block. You will need to find an Oil Pan, Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, Dip Stick Tube, and Dip Stick from a 1965 to 1977 170 or 200 Six from a Falcon, Comet, or Mustang to name only a few, to replace the Late 200 Six Rear Sump Oil Pan, Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, Dip Stick Tube and Dip Stick that was used in any Fox Chassis Cars. Yes there usually is a second Hole in the correct location on the Short block that would then be used for the earlier type Dip Stick and its Tube than you just plug up that rear Dip Stick Hole with a Soft Plug of the right size. Good Luck on your Swap.
An early say 65 oil pan, pickup, single groove damper, water pump and pulley will work fine on a late 200.
On early Falcons the1/4" drive oil pumps were shorter so they have an oil pump pickup that may interfere with installing an oil pan with a later taller 65+ oil pump.
Rockauto has a 78 soft plug kit that has a soft plug for oil the dip stick tube hole. A new dipstick tube can be made out of 3/8" steel fuel line.
You can't knock out the dip stick tube out from the bottom. Put a long bolt in it then use vice grips to carefully work it back and forth.
On early Falcons the1/4" drive oil pumps were shorter so they have an oil pump pickup that may interfere with installing an oil pan with a later taller 65+ oil pump.
Rockauto has a 78 soft plug kit that has a soft plug for oil the dip stick tube hole. A new dipstick tube can be made out of 3/8" steel fuel line.
You can't knock out the dip stick tube out from the bottom. Put a long bolt in it then use vice grips to carefully work it back and forth.
Well, I went and took the heads and distributors off of those two engines yesterday. It was an '80 low-mount starter 200, and a '69 250. The 200 was in really nice condition, and the 250 looked okay, rebuildable at least. The two now headless engines are very available yet, the guy wants them gone. I posted more details in the eBay deals section. A good score for someone semi-local with a truck.
fast64ranchero
Well-known member
I have low mount 200 info posted with pictures on this site, The only real problem swapping one in is the Exhaust. stock exhuast will work fine with a new section from the exhaust manifold to around the bellhousing. I could not find a header that would work without major modding, I tried the ebay SS header, the 250 sigle outlet Scott drake header and the clifford header non cleared the bellhousing at the starter location. I ended up making a header. Worth it though, any SB ford trans will work and Modern Drivline sells the correct Flywheel for this if you want a manual trans, if using an Auto the factory flex plate works great. Good luck!
F64R, I looked at your build, that home-made header is something! A veritable metal Medusa. Anyway, I was looking for a compatible 200 to put in my car while I pulled my original one for a minor refresh. That low mount engine doesn't work so well for that. Just looking at the situation I figured my exhaust wouldn't make it past that low starter. And I just paid extra to get a new exhaust system that looked stock but was 2". I don't want to cut that up already. I saw some sources that weren't very explicit, but seemed to imply my stock C4 wouldn't just bolt on either. Is there a bellhousing that makes that possible? There are several bellhousings from the low mount years on eBay right now. I don't know by eye or by number which ones are actually low mount though.
